The Liberal’s Rational Case

The liberals of your acquaintance, maybe ones in your extended family, loathe Trump and they loathe you because you voted for him. At first, they thought you were misguided and could be swayed to see things their way, but soon they came to see your irrevocable opposition to Leftism as proof of your evil. At this point, you know well enough to avoid any talk of politics with them, should circumstances dictate that you see each other, because your previous efforts at “hey, let’s go through this together and see where we agree, and why we disagree elsewhere” resulted in their twisted faces either hissing in your direction when they outnumber you, or coldly staring at you like executioners.

Their minds are made up, about everything. You write off any possibility of future contact but then one day you learn that a mutual friend was passing through their neck of the woods and he got together with the liberals you had written out of your life. This mutual friend is most certainly a Trump supporter and highly intelligent, though not nearly as jaded about the prospects of a nice evening with old friends who happen to be liberal as I am, so they get together.

Ambush. This mutual friend initially deflected taunts about Melania and Tucker that they sniped at him with. He said “Hey, I know that our views are a bit different and yes, I support MAGA. But let’s not talk about politics.” To no avail. They were dialing it up, from “you’re so smart, how can you not be a liberal” to, in so many words, “you are a retarded piece of shit.”

The evening was a disaster. He was disgusted. He was also, like me a year earlier, disappointed at how two people he’s fondly known for decades had changed into Cheka interrogators.

He and I talked afterwards and I still wondered, in a detached frame of mind: what do they want? A hypothetical intellectual exercise fascinates me, this idea that a lib and I can sit down and first, I explain in a sentence or two what I want in terms of politics that shape the future of our descendants. Then, they will tell me, clearly and rationally, what it is that they envision as a good future for them and theirs. Culturally we are same, we’re not from rival religious, ethnic or racial groups. We have similar socioeconomic backgrounds.

Does a liberal have a rational case for hating the things we vest our hopes in and loving the things we despise?

Yeah, he does.

I finally figured out what liberals want. It’s a eureka moment for me, not necessarily for anyone else who reads Anonymous Conservative and knows his r/K political theory. The question about liberals’ irrationality used to dog me, especially after heated arguments with them. I used to say, “I can state clearly in three or fewer sentences, why I want Trump to win and am not a liberal. Can you, for my better understanding of where you’re coming from, do the same for your side?”

If that were a Serb vs Croat argument of yesteryear, there would have been a straightforward case on each side. That case may or may not have been acceptable to the other side. But at least there would have been a rational basis for the partisanship of both parties. Not so with MAGA supporters vs the apparently normally-functioning White, middle class Hillary-voters.

Our rational case, in simple words:

  • High-minded language — “Down with globalism, rebirth of nations.”
  • Cards on the table — “It’s okay to be White, build the wall, send them back”
  • The id speaks — “GTKRWN”

And one would think, being White and more or less just like us, libs would, if they were honest with themselves, want all of that too. But they don’t, yet they can’t tell us what they want.

In fact, they do have a coherent and rational positive vision: they want the r-selection paradise. Our dream of a vigorous West is their nightmare because it’s an aspirational world. They long for a world that entails a race to the bottom. It’s where they can be themselves.


A K-selected Right Winger wants to better understand their rational case for Leftism. He interviews his Hillary-voting subjects. His first question: “What about the ugliness of multiculturalism?”

  • The Left’s reply: “Diversity is vibrant. White is boring.”
  • What they mean is: “In a shithole, I can relax and be ugly too.”

Right winger: “Diversity plus proximity equals war! don’t you care about your family?”

  • The Left’s reply: “You are so fear-driven.”
  • What they mean is: “The bad stuff happens to other people.”

Right winger: “Our country is invaded, our ancestors dishonored, our descendants dispossessed. Are you okay with that?”

  • They blink dumbly.
  • What they mean is: “We are rabbits. No loyalty, no honor.”

Right winger: “And what about the sexual degeneracy? your side won the gay thing, the transgender thing, and now they are normalizing p-d-phiIlia!”

  • They get pissy: “Yeah, like Catholic priests are some paragon of wholesomeness.”
  • What they mean is: “No big deal; besides, I’ll also get to be degenerate and no one will judge me.”

If you think I’m making up a self-serving scenario with that last one, think about a hypothetical liberal’s attitude toward an actual priest. Should he know of one who committed some vile act, the liberal will condemn him, sure. A point for his side. He won’t, however, feel much of anything personally about such a priest. He might even see him as tragic, perhaps as victim of homophobia. The priest he loathes, one for whom the liberal saves his hottest hate, is the incorruptible man of God.

Yes, liberals have a rational case. No, they cannot be reasoned with. Yes, they have to be kept away from access to power and at least at an arm’s-length in your private life.


67 thoughts on “The Liberal’s Rational Case

  1. “Our country is invaded, our ancestors dishonored, our descendants dispossessed. Are you okay with that?”

    This scene from LOTR is a fair litmus test:

    A healthy son of the West feels his heart become a fist, his eyes mist with noble love.

    The degenerate yawns and looks at his iphone.

  2. In my opinion, the entire debate is irrelevant. Why do people prefer colorful fashions one year, dour grays and blacks the next? Can a person explain to you why this year’s Coach purse is so much “better” than last year’s fashion?

    Of course not. No man would ask his wife or girlfriend to explain such things, he knows she can’t because the question itself is a category error.

    Leftism today is essentially one big Cat “Rescue-Hoarder” psychosis. Look at the signals:
    1. Leftism’s “darling list” is made up of people who are dysfunctional, and the more dysfunctional they are, the more the Left elevates them to demigod status.
    –Migrants of all colors.
    –Sexual deviants.
    –Chronically miserable people.
    –People who exhibit zero ability to manage their own lives (because they’re obese, drug/alcohol-addicted, pederasts, sodomites…all whiny babies usually.)
    2. A person’s dysfunction index is directly related to the zeal with which the Leftist wishes to use the legal system to succor them.
    ==Schools divert 99% of their resources to “special ed” or emotionally-disturbed students, so that the able students are left to educate themselves (or more usually be bored to tears and then act out, joining their disabled/disturbed classmates in attention-seeking misbehavior) while the school invests $20,000/yr to get a mildly retarded kid to read at a 3rd grade level by HS.
    ==Increasingly criminal behavior of the “demigods” is placed on a parallel track, where able people are held to impossible standards while the useless, dangerous people skate on everything up to and sometimes include rape and aggravated assault.

    Cat “Rescue-Hoarder” behavior is a psychosis. It is altruism raised to a pathological level, but imagine trying to explain to a Cat Lady carrying a box full of stray kittens into her home that she’s doing the wrong thing, even as you point to the rotting cat corpses and dozens of starving cats living amidst a cesspool of cat feces in her home.

    She. Doesn’t. See. It.

    Our minds are amazing things, but what they are NOT is machines. A computer does *exactly* what its programming tells it to do, no more and no less. Our minds, however, are NOT coherent in any way remotely similar to this. The hemispheres of our brain operate entirely differently from each other. Our limbic system operates separately from our neocortex. We have what amounts to a committee in our heads, and its members disagree all the time…but in the end, whatever actions that committee dictates are rubber-stamped by our ego such that whatever actions we took (or take) are deemed “wise, rational and commonsense.”

    Leftism is a FAD. A long-lived fad, but a FAD! It is this year’s (and this decade’s, and this millennium’s) Coach Purse. It will run its course, and the course will change, to what I have no idea. But trying to “explain” why a leftist believes as she does is as irrelevant as trying to explain why each of us believes as we do.

    Just as every missing item is found “in the last place we look,” whatever beliefs we hold today are correct by axiom (else we woudn’t believe them, duh!) But beliefs don’t alter reality, they only affect how reality falls on us.

  3. Basically what Western Civilization is is a test for K-selection. If you are unable to show the traits we require to fit in under this paradigm, your opportunities for breeding will be curtailed, resources will not be provided, and since you don’t have the traits to acquire them on your own, you will die. And we will all be better off.

    Of course this needs to be “deconstructed.” They would all literally die under our system. Nature is cruel, and I feel no ill will towards any of these people personally. But I would be happy if they all woke up dead tomorrow. And normal people the world over would be better off.

  4. I’ve thought about this a fair amount, and I wish I had something more insightful to say than: I find it exceedingly difficult to insert myself into that mindset, even as a thought experiment. What would it be like to think that way as a default? I’m going to keep trying, and see if any new wisdom comes out of it.

  5. “Leftism is a FAD. A long-lived fad, but a FAD! It is this year’s (and this decade’s, and this millennium’s) Coach Purse. It will run its course, and the course will change, to what I have no idea. But trying to “explain” why a leftist believes as she does is as irrelevant as trying to explain why each of us believes as we do.”

    this is essentially the conclusion I’ve come. it’s simply a habit, a habit that grew out of feel-good prosperity. and it will just have to run its course.

    I also believe that the decentralization of information, via the Internet, played a role in clarifying and catalyzing the lunacy of the left. the paradigm of infinity hugs and prosperity was largely fueled by entertainment propaganda, she there wasn’t anything out there BUT propaganda. now the information lights are being turned on and the cockroaches are scurrying to the dark corners of their favorite false narratives.

    it’ll be interesting to see how this all goes down. bit of a nail biter.

  6. “No big deal; besides, I’ll also get to be degenerate and no one will judge me.”

    This is also the libertarian motivation for economic degeneracy. It’s true that usury and sodomy go together.

  7. I’ve thought a lot about the concept of “rationalization”, being “rational”. It seems to be a mental exercise in creating arguments to justify whatever desires one may indulge in, no matter how destructive. When this sort of exercise is taken outside of the realm of one’s mind, and applied to the world at large, and used to define Truth, all manner of evils and atrocities may be “justified”, if rationality is the standard by which we measure justice.
    The best aspects of religion, philosophy and love for one’s self, tribe, ethnos, culture lie outside of, or beyond the rational mind, in the realm of the ideal, as something to strive for and hold as a goal and guide. The secular and rational mind sees the ideal as an oppressive force, because it requires effort to approach, and is impossible to capture and enslave, thus it seeks to deny anything outside of the rational, the secular, that which is bound to death, the great equalizer.

  8. My most basic question was, put more simply here: “What do libs think they’ll gain with the victory of Hillary, of liberalism, multikult and all of that?”

    And I’m not talking about some filthy SJW or mentally ill wierdos, I’m talking about normally functioning Whites with jobs, mortgages, and families. They aren’t by any stretch “compassionate” toward the Other. The apparent contradictions between their lives and what they so doggedly advocate, and with such visceral animus, were a puzzle to me.

    Understanding that they more or less subconsciously want a world that sanctions a race to the bottom on every level, and that they see traditional-minded people as an obstacle to that kind of freedom, puts that puzzle piece in place.

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  10. I figure it in terms of domesticated behavior. We are bred to be rabbit nowadays: and so rabbits we are.

    Come to think of it; domesticated versus wild is the SAT-analogy thing that corresponds to r versus K; but maybe domesticated versus wild is higher up on the ladder of explanatory power.

    Because wolves and rabbits, whatever else their differences, are both in the broad class of things we call “wild animals”. Whereas human beings not so much.

  11. Speaking of domesticated versus wild, I just this morning stopped drinking fluoridated tap water, so am expecting a sharp increase in the alacrity of my thinking powers, which I have noticed for a long time are “not what they used to be.” Many such cases. Sad!

    However on the actual, isn’t it the case that all that is going to do for a poor rabbit, is at best, to put a halt on the deterioration?

  12. I like my analogy of the zoo and the zookeeper. Or what is the SAT word for an extended analogy? oh yeah allegory! that brain is already being cleansed!

    Who are the zookeepers up in this Bitch? It’s fitting because (((certain peoples))) have for thousands of years explicitly made plans to shape us into their cattle slaves and or kill us. Someone is going to have to replace them, as zookeepers.

    We are not going back to Bronze Age to live as wolves. We are domesticated animals now. Best case scenario is that Citizens will start a voluntary league that requires submission to Natural Duel as outlined by the Godfather James Bowery, by which means we can still keep the strong (and beautiful) among us to show us how roosters do.

  13. Considering your holiday liberal relatives as rabbits, or domesticated dogs which they more resemble, is also more palatable than thinking of them as bugs needing exterminated.

    They are just dogs whose master has got them so well trained. Their life is a dog biscuit and they get a lot of em.

  14. “They are just dogs whose master has got them so well trained.”

    Indeed. Their ancestors were wolves. They are dogs. Pavlov’s dogs. Their conditioning is not accidental.

  15. Liberals don’t want to honor ancestors and traditions, it requires work and humility.

    They don’t want to defend borders or the culture, that might mean getting hurt. Better to make nice with invaders in hopes of not being killed, or at least dying last.

    Liberals are rational; theirs is the reasoning of selfish cowards.

  16. Wolves stopped being wolves when their ancient ancestors changed environments. Different environment, different creature evolves.

    What we see today is what you get when you have a highly intelligent ape learn to use language, and then writing, to incrementally build on the intelligence (and learning from failure/success experiments) of those who came before.

    None of us is as innovative or productive as all of our productive members together, plus all those who came before.

    The problem is that Nature may be random, but isn’t stupid. How do you arrange a system so that any part of it that breaks free of its normal constraints and begins to overspread its ecological niche is still stopped from destroying the negative feedback loop system?

    You have a fail-safe.

    Leftism writ large is the fail-safe. Properly understood it is the belief in Godlike infallibility that comes after centuries of exponentially-rising living standards. “We” (our great-great-great-great grandparents) were “there,” “We” (all of us watching now) are “here,” and we straight-line forecast that our future is a Utopia where no badfeelz exist.

    We have collectively embraced the notion of unlimited resources, because WE ARE GOD. We can change the rules, nature’s laws themselves.

    Of course, this is a collective delusion of mass psychosis. But it is widespread, a near-religion. And it animates collective behavior that is so phenomenally self-destructive that it can only be attributed to Nature’s Grand System.

    We humans have the seeds of our own destruction implanted as a “subroutine” in our brains, and it takes over when we’re too fat, dumb and happy.

    Nothing sets up failure like success (because it leads to arrogance and folly.)

    [This is a uncommonly fascinating comment. – PA]

  17. What do normies with spouses, kids, a mortgage, etc. think?

    What on Earth makes you think they give any of this any thought at all? It takes real IQ horsepower PLUS a willingness to look past your own biases to explore the abstractions necessary to grasp the track we’re traveling.

    On a forum of 140+ IQ people most could not go where is required to see. As “bright” as they were, their grasp of abstractions was still infantile. They were hogtied by their biases.

    No. Very few people can follow this path ahead into the murk where it leads. We are led and we are surrounded by those who do not see. It has always been this way, and always will be this way. Heretics are burned at the stake even as the leaders who lit the match are destroying their communities by ignoring the heretic.

    If you want a friend, get a puppy.

  18. FWIW, PA, I think Leftism and alcoholism (or drug abuse, porn addiction, video game addiction, etc., etc., etc.) all stem from the same cognitive subroutine. We truly are our own worst enemy. Each of us harbors Mr. Hyde, and the funny part is that Hyde always wears his Dr. Jekyll mask so we always think it’s the good doctor who is running our head. Hyde runs the show often, in some cases all the time.

    We are always assured of our own belief in our own rightness. It’s why addicts cure themselves, and slaves free themselves, or they will remain forever addicts and slaves. The “red pill” is always there, it was there before the Internet, it would be there if the Internet is turned off. It’s simply that few people are of the Remnant. Few actually WANT to be free. Freedom is terrifying, as is seeing just a little bit too much of “real” reality. That’s how I see it, anyway.

  19. People might not think, but they do react and feel based on their objective interests, even if the logic of those interests doesn’t make sense. Then, they will rationalize their feelings.

    So, liberal normies are quite clearly driven by some kind of an impulse that is in one way of another ultimately grounded in nature-ordained self-interest. This apparently suicidal partisanship (tropical bipeds will most certainly eat liberals too, not just us racists if they win) is a broad phenomenon, not some idiosyncratic quirk. It literally splits our people in two.

    So maybe their hate for Trump/MAGA and all that those things aspirationally represent is some derailed form of tribalism. OK, I can see that. But since the normie-lib’s mind is complex enough at around 115 – 125 IQ, shouldn’t some part of him be a secret Trump fan? I mean, this lib doesn’t want The Caravan in his ZIP Code either!

    And yet, his fanaticism is total. There is no opportunism in his support for leftism, in the sense that he’d at least be psychologically hedging his bets on the Right. And again, those people aren’t some deviant cult, they are in the millions.

    So what makes the most sense to me, is that they, at their fundamental biological reality (if you momentarily remove demonic works from consideration), react to the prospects of Race to the Bottom as the scenario that maximizes their fitness.

    But that’s not an acceptable, to them, way of thinking about these things, which is why they latch on to Communist doctrine in its current permutation.

  20. Deter and Plumpjack, I’m a big fan of you both. That said, Leftism isn’t a fad, and it goes back way further than the 60’s. Leftism is a secular version of Gnosticism, therefore it’s a religion. Maybe a faith is a better term. And as a religion/faith, it’s perfectly rational within it’s own moral framework. The problem is the paradigm is off, but the faith itself asks and answers some deep-seated questions: What’s wrong with the world/life/people? Why is there suffering? What is to be done about it?

    If you believe that people are basically good, then the only answer to those first two questions is that creation / the world / the SYSTEM is wrong, which then logically leads to the answer to the 3rd question: fix the SYSTEM. Contrast this with how Christians answer the questions. Man is innately sinful, which is the cause of suffering, and the answer is the salvation of individual men. I know I’m speaking very broadly, and it can get a lot more complicated than that, but at it’s core I believe this to be true, and the fountainhead of all man’s spiritual differences

    Incidentally, modern atheists (that really is the only kind) tend to be the scientific type, and they don’t really ask those questions. To them, things just are, and it’s our job to figure out how things work so that we can live better within the SYSTEM we find ourselves in. I think people like CH and John Derbyshire fall pretty neatly into this category, and people like this think similarly to true ancient pagans.

    If there is, deep down, any other ways of viewing the world, I haven’t found them. Christianity, Gnosticism, and Paganism. Once I understood what Gnosticism is, I began to see the modern expression of it all around me, and now it all makes sense, and I’ve been going down this rabbit hole ever since.

  21. PA, I our premises diverge. The alcoholic doesn’t really think he’s hurting himself or those around him. Even if he mouths the words (to placate loved ones occasionally) his actions are driven by the reward centers of the brain (short-term) and the longer-term (inevitable) harms are rationalized away.

    Action is revealed preference.

    Leftists do not see the same future as you do. For them, your A-B-C-D-E is something more like A-cat-porpoise-rock-Nirvana. Their cult-behaviors (celebrating the Dogma, kissing the feet of their idols) gives them the same dopamine drip as alcohol gives the alcoholic, f8ckfilms give the porn consumer or the marathon runner pushing into the “runner’s high.”

    When “we” try to show a leftist where their premises take us all, it is quite literally the same as taking a toy from a spoiled teenager. The promise of that dopamine reward is being torn from their fingers, and who do they HATE for doing that? You, of course.

    You are confusing them with facts, when it is the feelz that matter to them, no matter how carefully constructed is their false premise weltanschauung. And we live in an age where the Internet provide a ready set of “facts” to back every different bias on the planet. I guarantee you that someone somewhere claims that an adult male raping an 8 year old boy (or girl) is good for the kid, and has their “facts” to back them up. This is the curse of the Internet. It is NOT A MEDIUM for finding truth, it is a vast echo chamber for every conflicting belief on Earth. It is actually a flood of gasoline fumes on the vast landscape of ammonium nitrate that is humanity, and everyone is SMOKING!

    Crazy people don’t know they’re crazy. None of us knows how sane we are…only by honestly observing the effects of our actions (and being honest is nearly impossible because our Mr. Hyde lies to us 24/7) can we begin to know if we’re on Sanity Island or adrift on Insanity Ocean.

    For the record, I sometimes wonder if it’s even useful to avoid that ocean. Tilting at the collective crazy windwills for decades is wearing down my commitment to sanity (or else I’m adrift like everyone else and just deluding myself still…I’ve been wrong about my premises before…)

    Major7, yes, Leftism goes back at least to the Protestant Reformation, but I suggest that because it’s part of our biological subroutine, it goes back to the beginning of Man. Not all of our innate behaviors are useful. We carry the detritus of time-out-of-mind.

  22. Maximizing one’s autonomy to a radical extent is entirely mundane assuming one has wholly rejected his belief in a resurrected afterlife?

    And so explaining the desire for perpetual self-annihilation is no more difficult than explicitly identifying those who disbelieve in a perfected resurrection.

  23. The mass are self-annihilators and this includes normies with mortgages, wives and children. That’s just a hard reality. The paradox, of course, is that this state of affairs points to a lack of free will. In other words, one who lacks free will, self-annihilates. Leftism is the ideology of “no free will.” So Leftism is the ideology of self-annihilation. Liberals are perpetual self-annihilators.

  24. I sometimes take the more classical view. Monsters and prodigies are deviants, grotesqueries, abnormities, perversions, unnatural hybrids; they are afflictions and portend evil times.

    Look around you; we obviously live in an age of monsters.

  25. “The alcoholic doesn’t really think he’s hurting himself or those around him.”

    This is often not the case.

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  27. Indy, from my experience I disagree. No one (probably not even Ted Bundy) sees himself as a monster. We’re all heroes in the diorama that plays in our individual mind.

    My preferred definition for vice is a self-harming action undertaken with the expectation of pleasure, but that ultimately accrues to unhappiness. (Note that pleasure and happiness are not only NOT the same, the former often undermines the latter rather than contributes to it.)

    Every action we take is undertaken with the expectation of benefit. Even a girl cutting on herself does so for a psychological reward the rest of us simply cannot understand. The man who has a surgeon turn him into a eunuch does so with an (utterly irrational) expectation that doing so will produce a “benefit.”

    My preferred definition of sanity is the relative accuracy with which ones mental map of reality (which is ridiculously oversimplified) aligns with ACTUAL reality (which is utterly infinite and unknowable.) The postmodernists aren’t entirely wrong in my view, just their conclusions from premise are stupid, irrational and evil.

    We are surrounded by (hell, we practically drown in) examples of how our minds lead us astray (misaligning the map we use for personal navigation with the topography as it really exists.) The easiest one to see is found on Wall Street. It is a repeatable phenomenon that investor optimism is extremely high at market tops (when reason would say people should be fearful) and extremely low at bottoms (when reason would say people should be bold.) Our perceptions are based on “a rock in motion (at our heads) stays in motion (so we should duck.”) But much of nature is actually cyclical, characterized by trend and trend-change, which is the polar opposite of the physics-level view of inertia, momentum and Newton’s Laws.

    Leftists’ map they use for personal navigation is a product of herding behavior. There’s nothing new under the sun, so all of us are following a map we have largely plagiarized from someone else (or better, from a lot of others.) Almost no one navigates mostly on his or her own (I’d argue it’s nigh impossible to do so, like inventing a whole new kind of music.)

    The Leftist map became increasingly estranged from the actual topography of reality. Recall that “the map is not the territory.” Leftists drown in the false belief that the map can remake reality itself, if people “try hard enough.” Taken to the logical extreme you get Pol Pot’s Killing Fields, where Uber-Leftists believed that by slaughtering all the educated and intelligent people in their society they’d achieve some sort of Ideal World. Who can explain the rationalizations that supported such collectively insane “navigation” in this life?

    We know that history is cyclical. I also believe it follows a fractal pattern (see for more, although my views differ markedly from those of Bob Prechter and his merry fellows there. I use their tools but arrive at different answers.) I further believe that this is all perfectly natural (hence Deter NATURALIST.) I don’t have to like it though.

  28. My sympathies lie with addicts. Sorry, Deter, but addicts do know they are hurting themselves and others. Addiction is not purely psychological, something you can decide to just not do, not be. Most addicts desperately want to be Not Addicts, but the drug(s) of choice have control, not the person.

    Otherwise I agree with you. The dopamine hit, well, it works. If you don’t know that the hit is coming from a bad source, well then can you be addicted? Multiculturalism is good! I get a dopamine hit with every Diwali festival I attend, every black I thank, every Hispanic I address in his native tongue. It can’t be bad because humanity. Alcohol and drug dopamine bad. I only get high on Other, therefore I’m a Goodwhite.

  29. As I perceive it, Chakrates, our divergence touches on the spiritual question. Are we more than the impossibly complex subroutines of our biological structures? For me, the answer is largely no, even though I do speak and think in terms that involve spirituality. The paradox exists in my own head, too. To me, saying addicts don’t wish to be addicts is identical to saying the unhappy do not wish to be unhappy…even though I believe happiness rests almost entirely on a person’s choice of expectation-setpoint.

    The addict who still indulges her addiction has two competing internal maps of reality, and the conflict makes them miserable. One map is closer to the real world, and choosing that one moves one closer to happiness…but it’s all so abstract and metaphorical that doing so is (from what I see) extremely difficult. From personal experience, arrogance makes it even harder.

    From a biological standpoint, there are behaviors that are a feature under some conditions, a bug under others, while there are behaviors that are always a bug (negative in all conditions.) The latter are usually a product of exogenous cause (that infectious diseases can literally change our behavior is a topic of study in its infancy-of-infancy…for example, homosexuality among men obeys the rules of an effect of infectious disease rather than something inherited in too much or too little quantity.)

    The behaviors that underlie addiction are, in my view, largely problems of our times (Plenitude) and are actually beneficial under the conditions within which we’re evolved to exist (deprivation and hardship.) For this reason, our vice-saturated Age produces a lot of misery because people’s innate biological drives lead them into self-destruction, the same as Native Americans had no alcoholism until their environment changed to contain access to it. Leftism is an addictive vice, a product of Plenitude just as is obesity/gluttony in a time of drive-through fast-food.

    Leftism today is like a society (and the political system it dominates) behaving like a truck driver who won a massive lottery; soon he’s surrounded by parasites who feed his innate goodwill and who help insure that his ultimate destination is being poorer than before he won the Lotto.

  30. I don’t disagree regarding addiction.

    We are meant to struggle. To strive. And either live or die. When it gets too easy, I suppose we look for hardship

  31. Deter – early in my alcohol addiction I truly believed I wasn’t hurting anyone around me. There was a great deal of self-deception about the effects on myself as well. Late in the game I knew my actions were hurting myself and my people but I couldn’t stop. That went on for years.

    I had a friend who never made that shift. He drank himself to death, to his dying day he believed all thoe lies in his head.

  32. Many addicts can be at their worst behavior when they become aware and empathetic of the pain they are causing. When someone sees the difference between 1) who they think they are vs who they are, or 2) how others view them vs. how they thought they appeared, there’s an overwhelming level of cognitive dissonance. The associated shame and guilt are quite literally painful and reinforce the consumption of the individual.

    It is truly a miserable existence.

  33. Indy, coming to grips with the past harms caused is overwhelming. No one changes the past, and realizing what could have been, but was not (and who really was to blame the entire time) is a bad place to be. We live this one life for sure, a f-ing up a decent part of it hurts in ways that can’t be articulated. Those lost years weigh as a truckload of stones, a mountain of regret. It’s bad to look in the mirror and see Mr. Hyde smirking back, and realize he was there all along, pulling all the strings.

    I tried to tell my kids; be careful what you do, for things you once rationalized will someday become regrets, and if you pile the regrets too high, you’ll never see the sun again.

  34. I have a sad story or two re alcoholism. Pretty sure it’s in the archives.

    A lot of people myself included, drink until they can’t. Until the negatives become too prohibitive. At which time a lot of damage has been done. There’s a good line from a song by this jew I like, it goes

    When you think that you’ve lost everything
    You always find you can lose a little more

    I’m just goin down the road feelin bad
    trying to get to Heaven before they close the door

    Bob Dylan flirted with Jehovah’s Witnesses it turns out. As have we all.

    That line and learning it, is in no way particular to addiction suffering people, and it wasn’t written for them.

    The question of whether or not alcoholism and addiction is a disease. My understanding of the actual and current answer to that question, is that it behaves as one. Whatever that means. A lot of the statements regarding addiction and alcoholism and the behavior that go into it, are fairly tautological. Which I don’t mean to be intellectual — god forbid! — but that fancy word fits. For instance:

    The answer to alcoholism is to go to “work the program.” Well guess who says that? People who do that. In point of fact the answer to alcoholism is to not drink. Life problems obv do not go away.

  35. AA and the Recovery Community, is a great place to socialize and meet people though. That’s it value, in my book. It’s no secret, or maybe it is an “open secret”, that the 12 Steps are based on the Oxford Six Step thing, which is Christian doctrine.

    AA tries to make itself not Christian but WITHOUT a DOUBT it is best understood, and in fact most effective, as a spiritual solution in the Christian tradition, but a one that is not too rigid or whatever.

    The Recovery Community is afflicted with all the same bs that happens anytime people socialize, which is to say problems.

  36. I go to AA meetings multiple times per week. To the extent that I am in a Mannerbund, it is with those guys.

    If I need someone to help me with a job, or a ride, or whatever, blah blah blah

    The larger point though, is that it’s a fairly unique thing, in that what else has organically emerged to address the social needs that we have?

    Ask that question again. And then again. And then again …

    Because the Church is not been doing it. The Church from an outside perspective, is a vector multiracialism.

    This is not to say that AA and the Recovery Community is what the Dissident Right is looking for. However in all sincerity there must be some lessons.

    David Foster Wallace recognized its unique quality. He was a regular attendee at open meetings. He hung himself of course. Couldn’t be bothered to stick around.

  37. I was perpetually exasperated by Infinite Jest, but DFW did treat addiction with compassion.

    Like depression, addiction is invisible. It’s easy to see a broken limb or a fever or a flu. Chronic mental illness is too readily written off as a failure of the individual. The organic causes of other illnesses are forgiven. If you’re depressed, screw you and your weakness.

  38. The way I see it, there is no such thing as an honest liberal. Liberalism is a charade in which earnestness plays no part, hence divining a “rational case” is a hiding to nothing. I quite agree with those opining that liberalism is a fad, but that’s not to mean it can turn on a dime like the popularity of bell-bottom pants and the disco ball. It has been remarked upon countless times that liberals, save the true believers who play pretend to the point of self-delusion, or the professional grifters who’ve found a profitable racket (financially or to gratify their self-esteem or a longing to belong), never partake of the insanity which they so giddily and clamorously wish upon the rest of us – they insulate themselves from their diversity pets, send their kids to private schools, and dumb down their speech when addressing blacks. I know the phrase “virtue signaling” has become trite in our circles, as has “virtue spiral”, but I really do think their advocacy is entirely informed by a desire to advertise their social standing. Thorstein Veblen coined the phrase “conspicuous consumption”, liberals practice “conspicuous politics”. To argue for open borders is to signal that immigration is no threat to your way of life, such is your professional and financial security. To welcome the celebration of degeneracy is to signal you have the means to insulate your children from its perverted reach. Hatred of the White Man is a profession of invulnerability within the pecking order: no diversity hire is ever to jeopardize YOUR position. Nor are the directives of the newly minted Spite Scrums of select vinegary lesbians and half-blood space cadets ever to threaten your employment. Public schools falling apart? No skin off your nose. Public safety compromised? Image being a pleb! Peder@sts in public bathrooms? What will the proles think of next? Also, who even uses those? The country going to hell? Who cares, when you have properties the world over?

    As always happens with any marker of wealth or class used to differentiate the upper crust from the hoi polloi, these political affectations progressively became fashionable among middle class people eager to fake status. All too often, emulating your betters on a budget is how you make believe you’ve made it. For those who hunger for a helping of ready-made hipness or keen on burnishing their faux-cosmopolitan bona fides, a little liberal peacocking goes a long way.
    As for those who need idols whose lead to follow, celebrity endorsements of liberal talking points provide all the necessary validation. It’s sophistimacation in a can. I never myself understood fandom and devotion to cultural icons, but there appears to be people out there with inferiority complexes who crave glamour vicariously as a way to elevate themselves from their humdrum existence. Nobody, but nobody, listens to celebs’ takes on politics because they think they’re informed or perceptive. It’s because they think aping their stances makes them look cool.

    When the insanity starts to bite, however – as middle class people can’t afford to firewall their existence from the disastrous consequences to their quality of life – they’re in too deep to tack towards sanity. Their entire social persona is intrinsically tied to being better than you.

    It started innocuously enough. Being a mouthpiece for the conventional liberal boilerplate du jour made them look so classy for so little effort. Who can resist flaunting their superiority over the great incredulous unwashed, over such risk-free inconsequential bugaboos as global warming, or by lecturing everyone on generic credos like “we’re a nation of immigrants” ? I mean, what harm could that do? To keep appearances, they made a point of parroting the latest bromides – can’t let anybody think you’re not keeping with the program – even though the mantras were now starting to run counter to their immediate interests – gun control, the “decolonization” of school curricula, the dismantlement of meritocracy in the workplace. But by now it’s too late to turn back. You’ve been too consistent for too long at credentialing yourself to afford being shown up now as a phony. Better to keep the mask on than let on you’d be willing to espouse hick policy positions, sensible though they be.

    Better dead than déclassé. There’s no way to go but forward, toward perdition and self-disenfranchisement.

  39. It’s one thing to have to deal with liberal lunatics if they are friends or coworkers. It’s another whole level of horrible if it’s a spouse. Like many men, I live a daily nightmare. As the 25 years of our marriage have passed by, I’ve watched in horror as my wife, once so nice and sweet, respectful and submissive, became more and more outspokenly “liberal,” while I, being a man who must exist in the real world while running a business and keeping cars, our house, and everything else functioning properly, didn’t have the luxury of moving to fantasy land. Nothing I have tried has brought her to her senses. Her descent into the darkness has accelerated ever since she bought her first smart phone. She is constantly on the damn thing, feeding off the snark her friends and family keep posting and soaking up the dopamine hits, and her mind has become totally corrupted. I am old enough (in my 50s) to have lived through my country’s long slow slide into degeneracy and hopelessness, caused largely by the evil and traitorous actions of our politicians and so-called elite. I fear for my children’s future, so I gritted my teeth, swallowed my disgust, and like a drowning man grasping at straws, voted for Trump, even though I didn’t (and don’t) expect him to be able to turn this ship around, while she enthusiastically worked hard to get Hillary elected, because “It’s her turn!” I tried to talk with my wife about my concerns, but like other discussions I’ve attempted when she makes ridiculous claims (“almost every woman will be sexually assaulted or raped,” “women earn 73 cents for every dollar a man makes,” “gay marriage is a beautiful thing,” “we gotta get rid of all the guns,” “only a Nazi would want to build a wall”), no amount of calm presentation of the facts was ever met with anything but eye-rolling derision or the silent treatment. You should have seen her after the presidential election… she wore all black for a week, spent several days literally crying with all her liberal friends, and made it clear that she thought I was a piece of shit. I will freely admit that it made me smile some. I won’t write her out of my life, as we have teen children still at home, and I take my marriage vows seriously. You know, all that “for better or worse” stuff. So I keep plodding away, always trying to live a noble life and set a good example. My kids have no idea of my misery. I imagine there are millions of guys just like me. Sure wish I knew what to do. Any ideas?

    Sent from my iPad

  40. From a pragmatic perspective, what were your wife’s vows? Did they include the traditional “love, honor, and obey” verbiage or the “love, honor, and cherish” BS? Either way, she’s broken those vows.

    Call her out on it and let us know her response.

  41. Ray man I feel for yah too! I’ll I can say is take a look at Chateau Heartiste. Not only read it daily, but spend some time in the archives. If nothing else, you’ll find some comraderie.

  42. Soy? Really? What would you suggest I use besides an iPad? I know it’s popular to hate on Apple products, but it’s just a stupid tablet, a tool… I do not even own a desktop computer or a smart phone. Is there something better I should be using (serious question!)? I bought this iPad used (reconditioned) for pennies on the dollar, and use it to conduct my business and occasionally check on a few great websites that have to do with gardening and woodworking. Plus every once in a while, I look at stuff like this site. I’m on the internet an hour a week, maybe. I don’t want to learn programming or struggle with hardware or software. This damn thing just always works and so far, I haven’t been able to kill the three of them I own for my business, even though they are old enough to not allow software updates anymore, and my guys keep dropping them off roofs. I guess when they finally quit working I will buy some updated models, but to me, they are like a truck or hammer, just a tool to get a job done. I’m not an Apple Groupie.

    And thanks for the Heartiste suggestion. Just had a look… powerful stuff. Will dig into it!

  43. What I used to like to do, when feeling crushed by the lifestory weight of fate, is get a six-pack of double dog [11.5 per cent ABV] and listen to Paul Brady on youtube. He does those old English songs like no other and they sure do understand

    CH advice will be this: Regain Hand.

    Is that good advice; is it practical, is it attainable?

    The whole configuration of marriage as it exists today, doesn’t allow for Hand. So the advice gets diminished to: Find a workaround.

    What has Ray done to allow that Hand to have slipped away? Congrats on having children.

  44. There is some basic manosphere that I threw by the wayside, because I am special and blah blah blah

    It turned out I was wrong and everyone else was right:

    1. Don’t drink fluoridated water. My workaround for this is to buy this water from the local grocery that is billed as natural and fluoride filled. It tastes good but what are the odds they are piping it straight from the faucet? In seriousness, that is a possibility but unlikely.

    2. Lift weights. I have little to no “talent” for weight room exploits, but even so it helps Big Time.

    The other basic advice that CH will throw your way, is to fuck your girl into submission.

    Again; how practical is that advice? Isn’t that sort of a cart-and-horse problem, at least to some degree?

    My criticism of that particular advice gets around to my favorite problem / excuse / legitimate fucking [legitimate fucking, get it?] complaint: that it’s harder to pin a woman down with your pelvis and do the slow micro rocking hip motions that nature evolved and God wants you do do, that stimulate her Area and clitoris and produce oxytocin in her vagina with your foreskin enabled dick smegma, when instead you are “jackhammer thrusting” in order to get off yourself by deep scouring what is left of your own genital sensation.

  45. CH advice will be this: Regain Hand.

    Yes, and if Ray is unfamiliar with this concept, it will be a long trek, and may thus possibly be too late, although I am the last to want to be pessimistic or discouraging. We are here for you, Ray!

    It’s interesting, there’s the concept that people get more conservative as they get older, but in our age, I have seen the opposite quite a number of times (my own mother, for instance) – especially with women, I’ve seen quite sweet and traditional-seeming women turn into psychos replete with all the SJW buzzwords after 50 or so.

  46. My criticism of that particular advice gets around to my favorite problem / excuse / legitimate fucking [legitimate fucking, get it?] complaint: that it’s harder to pin a woman down with your pelvis and do the slow micro rocking hip motions that nature evolved and God wants you do do, that stimulate her Area and clitoris and produce oxytocin in her vagina with your foreskin enabled dick smegma, when instead you are “jackhammer thrusting” in order to get off yourself by deep scouring what is left of your own genital sensation.

    There is part of me that can’t believe I really read this.

  47. — CH advice will be this: Regain Hand. Is that good advice; is it practical, is it attainable?

    There is a classic post at Heartiste, from 2009. It’s one reader’s testimonial how he changed his interaction with his wife to regain hand with her. Very basic things, like instead of saying “where do you wanna go eat” “I dunno where do you wanna go” which culminated with yet another argument, into “we’re going to x tonight.” No magic solutions, just meat-and-potatoes basics. Look for “Relationship Game Week.”

    Anglin had a recent article about the impossibility of “hand” when husband’s physical strength is taken out of the equation. A hyperbole, but one with a grain of truth. If all political power comes from the barrel of a gun, then all patriarchy comes from the man’s pimp hand (there is that word…), is how I’d sum it up. Some wives are no-drama, calm, nice girls. Other women are wild mares, and those need a man too… except how does a man control her?

    “By being alpha?”, Anglin asks. “Is that like The Force in Star Wars?”

    The point is made. Camille Paglia wrote plenty on that twenty five years ago. “Why do women return to their abusive husbands? because the sex is so hot!” she wrote.

    SCENARIO: drama-mama pushes her man’s buttons. A flash of anger in his eyes.

    NOW: (she thinks) – “Oh crap, I better call 911 and have some policemen kick his ass. What a loser. I want a divorce.”

    THEN: (she thinks) – “Oh crap he’s gonna get mad, I better go into kitty cat mode before… OMG! what are those feelings in my loins GAWD!! he can be hot sometimes!!!”

  48. I’d suggest Ray start quietly hiding his money from his wife. Buy gold coins and tuck them away someplace away from the house. Go talk to a divorce lawyer about the realities of the financial aspects of divorce. Then in a few years, when the kids are all out of the house, and maybe the wife is worse than ever – making life miserable – then you’re prepared and can divorce the bitch and move on to find someone who doesn’t have her head up her ass.

  49. @Ray: Just change the settings so you’re not advertising for Apple for free, then. Also, do a little research into Vox Day’s male hierarchy and find out which label applies to you, so you know where you can work on self-improvement and what your limits will be in that pursuit.

    @S.J.: “…there’s the concept that people get more conservative as they get older, but in our age, I have seen the opposite quite a number of times (my own mother, for instance)…”

    My ex-military father used to vote Republican, and he managed to piss off leftists all the time by being a straight talker, so I used to think of him as conservative. Once he retired on a government pension, however, he shocked me by swinging the other direction because of leftist promises to protect his pension. Very disappointing. Mind you, he did nothing in his retirement but consume mainstream media all day, so….

  50. Get a dog
    Clothes befitting and right set
    Shoes; pleased to be shining and clean
    Flossed of teeth
    Bowel health

  51. Those two poor girls who got killed in Morocco, apparently the video of one of them is making the rounds, and it’s an awful death.

    There is old folk wisdom that people cry out for their mom when they die, and they are saying the girl cries out for her mom.

    Doing exactly that, crying out for mom upon meeting the Grim Reaper, features twice in the only tv show. The first time when Matt Bevilaqua gets taken out by Tony and Big Pussy, he cries out for his mom before getting bulleted; and the second time on Johny Sacrimony’s hospital lunge cancer death bed.

    Death porn and the watching of it, is of course not a healthy thing. No one should have to or want to see that stuff.

    The British Ambassador to Morocco is named Thomas Reilly and he says that all Moroccans are not like that: NAm

    #Morocco murder video authenticated. Terrorism is irreligious no religion or other excuse justifies it. We will never give into terrorism. We must also not over-react. This appalling act doesn’t change the beauty of #Morocco & the warmth kindness & generosity of its people

    [The British ambassador’s statement. Demons do speak through consenting human conduits. — PA]

  52. Demons do speak through consenting human conduits. — PA

    Especially when the human thinks he is in control, thinks he can “handle it”, thinks he’s somehow going to get the better end of the deal.

  53. Pingback: The Liberal’s Rational Case | Western Rifle Shooters Association

  54. I disagree with Deter Naturalist that Leftism is the fail-safe to stop humans who confuse the civilization they’ve built with planetary ecological reality. I disagree because there was no way Darwinism could have produced that subroutine. Humans have never been so rich as they are today. There has been no earlier living environment of extreme control over the built environment, which then collapsed, whose survivors could have been selected for this fail-safe brain subroutine.

    I agree with Deter Naturalist that Freedom is terrifying. Most people have something like a political agoraphobia which prevents them from initially viewing Freedom as a novel possibility which could be attractive.

    I disagree with Major7 that all people will be basically good, or basically evil. Darwinism is going to make a spectrum of good and evil people, and continually produce new ones at every location in the spectrum.

    Deter Naturalist, Leftism, which is to say Communism, goes back to the gorillas and common chimpanzees. Communism and social castes headed by a charismatic alpha monkey is what the great apes do, as programmed somehow in their brains. Humans inherited that programming, except now we have monkey troops of size 300 million instead of 100 and the vastly greater size gives the head monkey far more power to harm.

    Ray, start draining the wealth you’ve earned out of the places where your wife can access it. Why would anyone expect your business to look or be successful when the economy is a disaster? Everybody’s financial picture is in bad shape. Talk to a divorce lawyer first, but maybe you can withdraw a big portion of the cash or equity out of your business or home by some kind of sale or loan. After the divorce, when you look poor for the court to keep the losses to her small, if you want to support her for a year or two while she retrains to enter the workforce, then you can choose that amount later. Depending on how nasty she has been during the divorce.

  55. Anon, you misunderstand the concept of feature/bug as applied to heritable attributes. Lots of attributes that are features under certain conditions (and thus propagated via selection) are disastrous under different conditions.

    For humans, writing changed everything.

  56. I have not spoken to my tree hugging sister for this reason for over 20 years or so. I knew it was impossible to get along unless I went along with her and the rest of my family’s insane views. I made myself an orphan. Yes, it IS THAT IMPORTANT!

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