The video below shows a progression of scenes from the 1981 film “Interrogation,” chronicling the breaking down of a Stalin-era political prisoner. What proves Krystyna Janda a great actress is how she makes the extraordinary familiar. Toward the end of the video her character attempts suicide and it looks real. First, her eyes dart sidelong like a schoolboy passing a note behind the teacher’s back, then those wild-animal teeth flash brightly, then her childlike surprise upon finding herself past the point-of-no-return toward death.

Zbigniew Herber’s “The Interrogation of an Angel” is musically interpreted in that video. The poem is typical of Herbert’s pregnant simplicity; in his own words, he does not create images, he just knocks on doors that open freely for anyone who wants to see.

The poem has strange descriptions. “The eons of his hair” is a literal translation, there is no idiomatic meaning. An “angel” is interrogated, referred to as “he” but he is given feminine qualities, with the long hair up in a bun and the blushing. This doesn’t rule out the possibility that subject of the interrogation is a man and the hint of androgyny is a metaphor for innocence. But on another level, Herbert could be talking literally about angels — which are spirits, they don’t reproduce so they don’t have sexual characteristics. They don’t even have material form, though they can assume human shape to accommodate our senses. So with that interpretation: a real angel is locked in human form, is killed, and then something of metaphysical significance happens.

As to depictions of flesh-and-blood human beings, “The Sopranos” features a scene or two in which a hapless wretch sits wide-eyed on a stool as the stony-faced gangsters stand over him. The fellow who ran afoul of Tony’s crew looks like a worm on a hook. There is a reason why people who survive war captivity don’t want to talk about it: torture is not photogenic. The subject doesn’t look like he’s maxing out a rep like they show in heroic movies, he looks like a crying baby. “Dehumanizing” really does mean that.

Can dehumanization be transcended? Yes, if the prisoner’s belief in his rightness is strong. Few people have the constitution to withstand social disapproval, much less torture. Some do, though. So, where physical endurance gives out, there has to be something else because there are many accounts of defiant martyrdom. There was also a Man who was wrongly accused, mocked and spat-on, flogged, a crown of thorns pushed down on his head…

Przesłuchanie Anioła / The Interrogation of an Angel
(Zbigniew Herbert, 1969) 

Kiedy staje przed nimi / Standing before them
w cieniu podejrzenia / in the shadow of suspicion
jest jeszcze cały / he is still wholly
z materii światła / of light’s substance

eony jego włosów / the eons of his hair
spięte są w pukiel / are pulled in a lock
niewinności / of innocence

po pierwszym pytaniu / after the first question
policzki nabiegają krwią / his cheeks flush red

krew rozprowadzają / the blood is distributed
narzędzia i interrogacja / with tools and interrogation

żelazem trzciną / with iron and cane
wolnym ogniem / with open flame
określa się granice / the body’s limits
jego ciała / are defined

uderzenie w plecy / a strike to the back
utrwala kręgosłup / fixes the spine
między kałużą a obłokiem / between a puddle and a cloud

po kilku nocach / after a few nights
dzieło jest skończone / the work is completed
skórzane gardło anioła / the leathery throat of the angel
pełne jest lepkiej ugody / is full of sticky agreeableness

jakże piękna jest chwila / how beautiful is the moment
gdy pada na kolana / when he falls to his knees
wcielony w winę / guilt incarnate
nasycony treścią / saturated with narrative

język waha się / the tongue hesitates
między wybitymi zębami / between the broken teeth
a wyznaniem / and the confession

wieszają go głową w dół / they hang him head-down

z włosów anioła / from the hair of the angel
ściekają krople wosku / drip drops of wax
tworząc na podłodze / forming on the floor
prostą przepowiednię / a simple prophecy



70 thoughts on “Torture

  1. Pingback: Torture | Reaction Times

  2. It is a subject somehow having a grim fascination. The devilries that people come up with.

    It’s boomer posting to recommend anything from netflix, but all the same. There was a series on that show called Locked Up Abroad, produced in Britain about White Westerners who end up locked up abroad.

    This one American Gex X who was a Hollywood B lister stock muscle head character actor, who starred with Kutcher in the stoner saga Dude Where’s My Car, ended up locked up in Pakistan and subject to the three or five days of “rendering” and then however much longer before he eventually got released.

    But his story is hard to believe. It turns out that character actor not only played a charismatic tough guy meat heat on the screen, but that he actually is Mel Gibson. He ended up beating up his torturer and eventually being let out, and his summary statement of his experience was that he “was glad it was me [and not some lesser man who would have been broken].”

    Recommending or even discussing anything on television is no longer advised, but that was the last best show. I think it’s no longer on rotation because it’s inevitable theme was pasty White Westerners when put to the test were made of steel.

  3. I can’t even stand the thought of it. The most famous scenes for instance in American History X when the guy gets jawboned on the cement curb.

    Could you do that to someone, and ever be able to sleep again. I don’t recall whether that scene was tastefully cut away and implied, or maybe they went all in with the sound effects. Also the famous scene in Game of Thrones where “the Mountain” pops out that guy’s eyes and people were grossed out about that.

    That Icelander recently deadlifted a thousand pounds, so i guess we have to make him king of all the free ranging men of the north. There is a video of him coming to Minnesota and hanging out as a gimmick with the lineman from the NFL team they call the Vikings, and it is pretty funny seeing how he is that much bigger than they are, to the same degree they are bigger than the average person. He dwarfs them.

    But then one of the nigger Vikings says to him, “but can you move” (exact words) and the Mountain comes at him with some fast footwork and bear hugs him and makes him say uncle.

    Ahrnold on the other hand could not “move.” See the video When Arnold went out in Public and watch him try to dance. Funny stuff. He is at a Latin bar and gets up to dance with the Mulatto bitches shaking their hips and he just grabs one and starts humping her. Very alpha.

  4. Modern cinema seems to be fascinated with graphic torture for some reason. Perhaps to inure us to brutality against the helpless? The first example I can think of is the chainsaw scene in Scarface.

  5. Demons are tortured souls. Self-inflicted. Yet, a dull mass will barely see any particular torturer as a demon nor notice a demon’s projection under the mask of a subhuman killer. Innovativing new methods to exact pain on particular demons is a fool’s game. It will end in a self-annihilation. The problem of pain was answered by The Perfect Man. Simply put, to crucify The Perfect Man just is to exact the most pain upon mankind that can be conceivably inflicted. In other words, even the most innocent in her time of mundane torture will not have suffered as severely as Christ BECAUSE Christ will not have allowed her to suffer such “universal equality.”

  6. Ohhhh PA…..have I got a treat for you.

    This is a special movie.

    The premise is that when tortured, “most” will react badly. But a few, like Jesus, can forgive their torturers and transcend what is happening to them.

    A secret society was founded to create (or find) those who could transcend. And unfortunately, you have to watch the whole movie to get the “kick” at the end, and it is in French.

    But I can promise you the last 15 min will blow your mind. Sometimes, the one being tortured is in control.

  7. Torture is a special topic.

    America is a nation that tortures. We have torture camps all over the world, like Guantanimo and Abu Ghraib.

    Of course, the Eastern Europeans and Soviets made a fine art of breaking a person. If you are good, you don’t even have to touch them. Sleep deprivation and standing in a spot for 24 hours will do it.

    There is a whole movie devoted to Murka’s torture policies. I don’t think most WNs have seen it.

  8. I watched that French trailer. I don’t have the stomach for it, seeing innocent kids/teenagers blow away at a dinner table and then those modern-medieval torture scenes.

    Sadism is a two-sided thing. I’m the opposite of the kind of person who’d torture a kitten for kicks. And I dislike cats. But the flip side is, that I’ve fantasized about punishment for, say, a European judge who takes kids away from Christian parents or lets muzz p*dos r*p!sts off with community service.

    But that deals with guilty individuals. It’s natural and proper to hate categories of people across race and ideology but not have sadistic impulses on account mere group membership. Clean, humane “do what’s necessary” is one thing. No pleasure, just duty.

  9. — If you are good, you don’t even have to touch them.

    The plot of Arthur Koestler’s “Darkness At Noon” is about an intellectual Communist persuading a now-condemned former colleague to sign a confession, using only dialectic during the interrogation. The higher-ups get impatient with the process, though he seems to make headway, and replace the intellectual “torturer” with a brutish simpleton who accomplished the job with simple peasant logic and a brightly shining lamp.

    One “painless” torture method: require the prisoner to sleep with his hands uncovered. Try it — it’s impossible.

  10. As a kid/teen, I read several memoirs of survivors of the notorious Gestapo prison Pawiak and the Majdanek concentration camp. One author devoted a chapter to the guards. He described three kinds of people: (1) the sadists, whom he deemed cowards because they relished mistreating a prisoner in sometimes sickening ways but shitting their pants as the Soviet army was getting close; (2) the other kind of coward, which was someone who admired the sadists but didn’t have the fortitude to be directly cruel like his idols; instead, they took the passive-aggressive route. The author describes a prison official who was generally soft with the prisoners but took pleasure in calling them into his office to inform them that a family member is reported to have died in another camp or prison. And (3) guards/soldiers who “just did their jobs.”

  11. The highest compliment a cop can pay a criminal is to call him a “coward”, PA.

    Cowards are hard to catch. They only fight or stand when they have an advantage. They are selfish and emotionless.

    All military and police forces act in this way. They don’t engage unless they have all the edges they can. They just like to lie, so they look better. No cop or soldier announces where he will be, what he will be armed with, and so on.

    Many times, I’ve seen a certain type of criminal gettting away with it. A common con is for the police to say “XXX is a coward! He needs to face us and face justice…if he is a man! He is cowering in fear.”

    (then the police set a meet and ambush him when he falls into the trap).

  12. It is good, that you know those things about yourself PA. Better to find out now. Your concern for the innocent is mostly a white decadence. Don’t ever expect a Muzz or Chinamen to contradict his countrymen to save you.

    (If you are right about yourself….) You might not be. You might be willing to do ANYTHING to survive, if placed in a real situation.

    As I’ve said, most WNs still think WN is a joke. That it is not real, and has no application in the real world. That’s the real reason why we lose.

    It is also why modern cops and soldiers are useless and “military service” never impresses me.
    If you need big daddy’s permission and a flashy uniform, you really can’t do anything.

    There are places where “the rubber meets the road.”

    You either join other whites…or you die. And if you die, there is no pity. The real leaders of the white race aren’t Roissy or Vox.

    Prisons are such a place. In truth, the con code is the only functioning WN code. The only real WN groups today are the Aryan Brotherhood, Peckerwoods, Nazi Low Riders and so on. They will survive. Most WNs won’t.

  13. Lol, “come out and fight us like a man!”

    I remember thinking — reading about one of those cases where some lone White man gets chased for days through the woods by an increasing number of cops — that it would have gone completely differently if he had had a pal who stayed behind and just shot up the police station from a distance. Total system meltdown. We are lucky to live in a society where this does not happen.

  14. — “XXX is a coward! He needs to face us and face justice…”

    That’s just cops trying to appeal to the fugitive’s vanity and puff themselves up, has nothing to do with bravery, as you point out. The cowardice I was describing is like “bullying” on steroids: such as a Ukrainian kapo at Majdanek I read about who enjoyed drowning prisoners in a water basin to the amusement of other guards. Eventually a German guard had enough and shot the sadist.

    The question: are those kinds of people (sadists) an asset or a liability?

    For someone whose philosophy is hyper-individualistic, that’s a nonsense question. He acts for himself. The downside: he is offed quickly and easily the moment a group of men deems him a headache.

    If someone has in-group loyalty on any scale — the “Nationalist” part of “WN” makes it a given that he should: then the question is pertinent. You can say that cowardice-sadism is a liability because normal White people are repulsed by it and those who aren’t… you’ll want to watch your back around those guys.

    There are heat-of-war situations though and the question is still operative. Was Japanese soldiers’ behavior at Nanking to their short- or long-term benefit? Not rhetorical.

  15. Eric Frein was the most recent case of a white boy going to the woods and The System sending in 300 pigs (24/7….Big $$$$$ overtime)

    He was also a WN and wore a Serb or Boz uniform, if I remember correctly.

    The cops like to get a guy’s family in their pocket. Dad “son, just give it up, come on out, lets talk this out like adults.” (as he’s talking, the police sniper is drawing a bead, headshot.)

    Rape is a valid weapon of war, PA. America has used it and we WNs are a victim of it.

    Many don’t want to hear this. The Africans do this all the time. America ALLOWED Germany to be mass-raped by the Russians, to demoralize and humiliate German men.

    It says “you can’t defend your women…you are nothing, less than a man). And it does work.

    I see this happening in Sweden, in fact. The Muzz are running amok with rape. The police work for the jew, so they will not do anything. The Muzz are showing white men how powerless they really are, that they can’t defend their families or women.

  16. Yeah, Frein might be the guy.

    Swedish men are in an even worse position than that. Their women (well, a curated selection of shitlibs) tell them they don’t want their protection. So rape on, Omar, rape on.

  17. You asked why couldn’t Frein run around the woods, while a comrade stays behind to do other things?

    I’m sorry to write it – Murka is a police state. You would be lucky to find another WN, in the whole country, who you could trust that way.Groups crack easy today.

    My challenge to any taker is to find one action group post 2005 that doesn’t get caught by snitching or infiltration.

    There is an interesting meme “rapists over racists”.

    Some call it fake, but the sentiment is real. Women prefer a strong rapist over a weak racist.

  18. Strong Racist is what they really want but aren’t getting at the moment.

    Would be interesting to find out more about everyday life in Sweden from someone there. Various bad-news stories and videos tell a lot but make you wonder how the average person perceives those things. The question is complicated by the very term “average person” because the average person is a follower (we forget this because if you are a reader of AltRight blogs, you are on some level a leader — bucking the official culture that you get from politicians, school, telewitz, and clothing store ads).

    So this “average person” in Sweden or wherever will say that things are fine, that Sweden keeps scoring at the top of world’s Happiness Index. They’ll even say it after seeing a terrible thing done to someone by a mud because they follow the official line that all is well, the immigrants are OK and it’s the racists who are the threat to peace.

  19. Sweden had that terrorist attack a while ago, muslim driving school. Doesn’t seem to have changed anything you can see on the outside. I also wonder if there is a hidden Rotherham bubbling under the surface, since where there’s a muslim, there is rape.

    It will be interesting to see how the Sweden Democrats do in their next election.

  20. A “strong racist” is a white (S)upremacist.

    A strong racist truly believes in the (F)ather’s “land.”

    White nationalists must be local subsidiaries of white (S)upremacy.

    As such, white nationalists have the exclusive ability to convert to white (S)upremacist.

    And because so few will, the illusion of schism persists.

    White nations are a given. Strong racists exist. white (S)upremacy is all-pervasive (especially according to the zeitgeist).

    These are fundamental truths in need of global memetic distribution.

    Only the true self can speak with conviction though.

    Who possesses true white (S)upremacist convictions and what exactly are these convictions of powerful racism?

  21. I also wonder if [in Sweden] there is a hidden Rotherham bubbling under the surface, since where there’s a muslim, there is rape.

    Good question. Seconded.

  22. Speaking of torture. Roy Batty at Daily Stormer has an article about how a 12-year old White boy in Mississippi was “bullied” to death by his black schoolmates, and hung himself. The kid’s name was Andrew Leach, and he looks like a regular kid with a good face.

    Don’t Kill Yourself, Fam

    “Bullied” eh? God, I hate those stupid anachronistic Boomer words. “Bullying” is what White kids used to do to other White kids to get them to shape up and White kids rarely ever bully anyone anymore.

    That kid obviously was getting harassed by NIGGERS.

    ‘From what we are hearing, there was a group of kids that would go around calling him fat, ugly and worthless,’ the grieving mother said.

    Asked if she’d ever approached school administrators about the bullying issue, Hudson told the station: ‘I only spoke with the school’s 6th grade principal. I didn’t know how to handle it. His dad did talk to a teacher one time.’

  23. The question: are those kinds of people (sadists) an asset or a liability?

    We all understand that when dealing with groups, outliers are part of the equation. And as such sadists ‘have their place’ especially in exceptional circumstances.

    My opinions against sadism are from a prescriptive place, wherein the behavior that we want to see should be encouraged and that which we don’t should not.

    However it is not simply prescriptive idealism that warrants opposition to sadism. As PA suggests in his comment, too much sadism (any at all, i would say) is damaging to in-group morale.

    A spergy argument for sadism is easily enough suggested, that it can always and only be applied to the outgroup.

  24. Sure, there’s probably a bigger Rotherham in Sweden.

    …but what diff does that make?

    I don’t think it would be shocking to learn Muzz are pimping underage Swedish girls. Sure, it might wake up a few fence-sitters.

    Let’s see, police and BigGov coverup, underage girls, mino pimps, and an oblivious public. That about cover everything?

    I don’t think one more mino atrocity will push whites over the edge.

  25. I live to serve, Elk.

    “I also wonder if [in Sweden] there is a hidden Rotherham bubbling under the surface, since where there’s a muslim, there is rape.

    Good question. Seconded.”

    It wouldn’t matter a bit if there was Rotherham x 1000 happening there. In fact, I think they could do it out in the open and put it on TV pay-per-view. I’m sure it is happening.

    You ask about another Rotherham, because you want permission to be upset. There is already enough to be upset about in Sweden that Muzz pimping white girls and policing helping them would be a small thing.

    Here is a hint, to tell if a person is a slave – if they always need The Master’s permission to do or feel anything.

    I too am a slave living in a full, totalitarian police state. The difference is, I know it and am planning my own prison break.

    My fellow whites are mad, but aren’t ready to leave prison yet. In fact, I think they’d rather stay and complain, than become free.

    The general degradation which affected the public in “the West” has affected WN also. We can see how it happened clearly in PUA and MGTOW. Most of the white race and most WNs cannot be saved.

  26. It’s weird to read Ryu getting so much flak for saying what everyone altready agrees upon both here from the “highest” IQ to over at Heartiste where he’s accused of being an agent of sort which is entirely irrelevant to the understood degeneration of the white race.

    Who loves shit? Who loves the shit of the white race? Nobody except other shit stains.

    But this ^^^ is neither here nor there BECAUSE the evolution of the white race is wholly independent of the shit of the white race ALTHOUGH white nationalists are in the position to cede empathy for the shitties of the white race OR ELSE they convert to white (S)upremacy and let the shit fertilize the earth as is inevitable to their self-annihilating “nature.”

    So Elk… You have neither love for the shittiest of the white race nor for the genuine white (S)upremacist. I’m not sure you’ve ever attested to hating a real nigger either? So what do you love and what do you hate?

    And is it any wonder why you can’t get on board with a land of wS where you stand as an exemplar with those very particular answers?

  27. I know you like music, PA.

    Jerimiah Jackson, MJ’s bro, had a song on it. Commenters were saying it is really about MK Ultra mind training. Plus, its just a cool song.

  28. That’s a creepy video. Same visuals as at the opening of that Swiss tunnel a few years ago and in Lady Gaga’s “Bad Romance” video. I remember the song from that time but don’t think I ever saw the video.

  29. The American people of Scandinavian ancestry I know seem to be very good at avoiding conflict. If the people in Sweden are similar, they are probably willfully ignoring the issue. My guess is that infuriates the immigrants more. As a person who sometimes enjoys a little bit of conflict in my life, I find the passive aggressive nature of very conflict avoidant people annoying. I’ve learned to view it as a personality trait they probably don’t have much control over and try not to hold it against them too much.

  30. Ironically Thordaddy, WN has helped me to understand Jesus a great deal.

    Many at CH would like to crucify me, while I am one of the few who will not lie to them.

    WN lost, we live as slaves, in a total police state. There isn’t much to do now. That’s the truth. And what is happening to most Murkans in terms of degradation is happening to WN, to us and even to me.

    This computer and the internet are making me stupider and reducing my attention span. That’s a fact.

    This happened to Moses and his jews also. They had to live in the wild for 2 whole generation to change the genetics back to warriors. Then they could have their own homeland, after fighting for it (not blogging for it, as I am).

    We – will have to do the same. Poverty and hardship will be good for us, though difficult.

  31. one of the problems with modernity is that everything that was once sacred has been made profane and available to anyone with the right connections. torture falls into this category.

    there are tales from antiquity of gods torturing one another, or torturing mortals like Hercules in order to test their mettle and/or get a bit of the tortured’s power. now torture is used to find out where someone hid the key. or as a means for Bully A to take revenge on Bully B. or whatever.

    someone who had participated in the Sioux Sundance ritual once described to me how it worked and the philosophy behind it. a bone is inserted through the skin behind both of a man’s nipples. the end of a leather rope is attached to each bone and the other end is lashed to a cottonwood tree.

    to earn his manhood in the tribe the initiate has to pull on the rope hard enough for the bone to pull through the skin. priests and elders and family members are there at all times, talking them through it. some men pull through easily, within an hour. others, often the most stubborn and arrogant, may require days, with lots of crying, fear, and breaking down in the process.

    when they have successfully pulled through priests say prayers and rub soil directly into the wounds. (according to my friend, there is rarely, if ever, infection).

    as my friend described it, this men-only ritual was the way men demonstrated their literal surrendering of their egos to the collective. it wasn’t necessary for women to go through this, since they went through the same process of surrendering to the collective via childbirth.

    so this is an example of ritual torture used for the specific purpose of social bonding. of course, native Americans are known for other types of torture ranging far into the sadistic. but it does bring to mind a certain thought:

    is a shared, ritual sacrifice necessary in order to get whites to work together as a tribe? if so, what would that look like?

    another thought: is the strength of the bonds of a tribe proportionate to the shared sacrifice?

    another: does individualism inevitably lead to parasite problems?

    another: can you judge a person’s seriousness about wanting to change things (ie, save the white race) by how much/how little personal sacrifice they’re willing to make?

  32. another: can you judge a person’s seriousness about wanting to change things (ie, save the white race) by how much/how little personal sacrifice they’re willing to make?


    That’s why men like Brevik or McVeigh are so highly admired. There is also much admiration for WNs with long terms of service, like Pierce or Covington.

    They sacrificed alot to do the right thing, even though they knew the public would hate them. This is a different “sacrifice” than cops and soldiers make, who are worshiped for the risk they don’t really take.

    It is one thing to be called “hero” and everyone loves you. But to do the right thing and be hated for it is horrible.

  33. like clockwork alphabet agency (((mole))) Ryu reminds us that the only good white nationalist goy is a one who unapologeyically slaughters anyone he considers an enemy.

    “what’s the matter, goy? why aren’t you slaughtering your enemies, goy? have you lost your nerve, goy? can’t you see all murricans are dumb and it’s up to you to save them, goy? train hard and prepare, goy. it’s your destiny, goy.”

    you’re so fucking transparent it’s pathetic.

  34. Reading plumpjack’s comment, I guess the difference between torture and toughening you up for your own (and the group’s) good is whether it comes from your own people or not. Other people are trying to break you, your own people want you to succeed.
    Personally, I have no stomach for torturing my enemies. If they need to be killed, then do so, but make it as quick and painless as possible.

  35. Lara, that’s a good observation.

    also, torturing one’s enemies has often served as a vetting process. if you couldn’t break the man or woman, then perhaps he/she isn’t actually your enemy, but rather a potential ally.

    that’s the problem with the ideological purist’s interpretation of reality. they want to kill everyone who doesn’t agree with them, rather than bring those capable of being enlightened/converted over to their side. this takes charisma and patience.

    but a “REAL” white nationalist just kills everyone who has even the slightest little disagreement about their ultra pure ideology, isn’t that right Ryu?

  36. FWIW, RE: Jerimiah Jackson, MJ’s bro, had a song on it.

    The bro in question is named “Jermaine,” not Jerimiah; he was the middle-in-age in the original Jackson 5 and played bass. He and brother Tito are excellent musicians, on bass and guitar respectively.

  37. Again….

    “We” should be estatic to have attracted one of “us” residing within the Beast. He’ll be pressed to white (S)upremacy or he’ll eventually bail and go full “radical autonomy.” Ryu has not really touched upon the ideology of “purity” as of yet, either.

    And “yes,” “we” operate in a Profiling State but only a small minority are really that competent at profiling. Lara and plumpjack need to do more homework.

  38. We’ll see what style of WN emerges IN THE REAL WORLD and on the streets.

    You tell me – in prisons, do the Aryan Brotherhood have nice, long discussions with their enemy? Is that what is happening, how they survive?

    Think hard about how the USA will be in 20 years….

    ….Locked down completely. 50% mino. Cops and soldiers on the street, working for the jew. Ordinary whites too scared to do or say anything. Men disenfranchised, women living it up with their mino and jew overlords.

    The real liability is WNs who won’t go far enough. The only WNs you can really trust are the violent extremists.

    Normie whites and many WNs actually still work for the System. The veiled threat which they live behind is that “I’ll tell mommy on you!!!!”

  39. It’s early yet and I slept poorly last night, so I’ll try to be clear.

    Thinking on this matter is part of what kept me up last night. Torture. And the Eastern Bloc I was taught to fear, obliquely via film and song and news stories my child’s mind didn’t fully understand. Reflecting on it, Communism unleashed a collective expression of pain and rage that targeted the weak and meek, not the guilty. A few guilty may have been swept up in the nets, but capturing dissidents was never the goal. Inflicting pain and suffering, finally feeling powerful and vindicated, that was the triumph of the Id.

    Perhaps, like fighting a disease, society must go through this now and then. But the human face of the suffering is more than most psychologically normal and emotionally sound people can (should?) be able to endure.

    PA, I understand your impulses to torture criminals. It’s deserving, and deterrent. It is justice. Suffer, as he has made me suffer…I agree. But you are sane and empathetic, whole and sure of yourself as a man. Left in the hands of those who are not sure, torture becomes not punishment but entertainment. A finer line may never have been carved in sand or stone.

    Lara, excellent observation and assessment. Socially we are not supposed to be aggressive or argumentative, but perhaps that pairs with our lack gauntlet-running, bone-in-nipple tearing, jousting, boxing, fire-ant biting, whatever. Men are not put on trial to test their manhood, and it’s forg that a man was forgiven and perhaps even congratulated for his weaknesses and ability to overcome them.

    Male-on-male bullying was seldom truly deadly. Only if dads/other watchful elders failed their duty. Bullying was really testing mettle, bringing everyone up to speed, recognizing who needed help or protection long term or who could help the tribe with the right push in a certain direction. (I’ll leave off female bullying for now, it’s as different a topic as men are different from women, or newts).

    Most bullying now is really overt racially motivated harassment of white kids (boys and girls) by NAMs. Torture again, writ large, and not intended to fix anything, only to make the torturer feel better about his status.

  40. “The real liability is WNs who won’t go far enough. The only WNs you can really trust are the violent extremists.”

    Ryu would like to remind you all, on this public blog, where every federal alphabet agency knows all of your identities and is archiving everything you’ve ever written here, that the only white nationalist you can trust is a VIOLENT EXTREMIST.

    did you all get that? because he really really REALLY wants to make sure you do. that’s Ryu’s idea of serving his people.

    doesn’t that sound like just great advice? a guy on the internet repeatedly telling you to TAKE YOUR WHITE NATIONALISM FAR ENOUGH AND ONLY TRUST WHITE NATIONALISTS WHO ARE VIOLENT EXTREMISTS.

    thordaddy, I’ve got a bridge for sale you might be interested in.

  41. Torture as part of War is one thing.

    But then Torture as in-group ‘socializing’ is another.

    Those are two completely different things but having some resemblances. They might seem could use different words.

    When it is in-group ‘socializing’ it is not to break a person. Or is it?

    It is hard to avoid the example of genital mutilation, and to consider what category that fits into.

    When the Indians tried to make a man out of someone, they were encouraging him to be a warrior.

    When the jews do it, they are making that person into a slave.

    What is the difference between a slave and warrior?

  42. Also there is the of torturing animals, versus torturing people.

    Two different things. And without even getting into where to draw the line between outgroup people and animals.

    In both cases it’s about inflicting pain, because that is power.

    “Feel the power of the dark side, Luke.”

    We are all animals and we are doomed.

    My understanding, is that predators ‘playing’ with their prey is considered by red pill ethologists to be sadism, or at least a homologue to it.

    Anyways such conclusion can be made by a lay person with some certainty.

  43. As far as people advocating torture and violence.

    What can you say. It becomes tedious. It is tedious.

    It implies taht we are babes in the woods, sitting at grampa’s knee and listening to war stories.

    The male mysteries are about violence, and as such (’mysteries’) they can not be addressed explicitly, and doing so is try-hard and vain.

    On the other hand, war stories are fun. But if your audience isn’t impressed, …

  44. But to move away from philosophy, and into real world no bs science —

    Torture is an expression of sadistic behavior, and sadistic behavior is a part of our being predator animals.

    A lot of people have a visceral reaction against all forms of sadism.

    I don’t want to see any sadism in my in-group. Sadism is for orcs. The elves do not engage in it.

    Ryu’s response on the CH thread, to my queries re his advocacy of psychopathy and sadism, was that it works for the jews and that it should work for us.

  45. Violent extremists have invested the most in WN. That’s why they are the most trustworthy and they care the most.

    I have expected to go to prison for my beliefs and to be tortured, and also to be hated by other WNs. I don’t think many WNs have that level of seriousness.

    Torture is a serious thing, and a punishment reserved for the most dangerous zealots.

    …so we return to Jesus.

    He was tortured. Certainly, he could have moderated his speech. I remember he was offered to step back and deny his own teachings, to save his life by the jewish elders of the period.

    The problem of WN isn’t in the ideology. People don’t want it.

    The white race is enslaved; they don’t know they are slaves and can’t even see the chains. They don’t want freedom because they have never known it.

    A few will reach the point where WN is more important than the mortgage, their “family” or eventually, their life. Those are the WNs I’d like to hear from, because they have paid the highest price.
    And FP wrote the last words, years ago:

    “No positive forcible change happens as wn “activism” fails… because there’s no “active” in the activity.

    The call has gone out. Too many times. On Rush, on FOX, over the internet, on blogs, on twitter – everywhere. All the natives have long heard the missionaries preach of G-Ziss over and over; those who wanted to accept The Word O’ God, did. Those who wanted to root through the bush can and do. The Sleeple have tuned out WN as they have a prophet knocking upon their door on a Saturday morning.

    I can recite no magic incantation, nor write the key abracadabra passage on Eradica breaking the spell, transforming GENBrandon – or GENX’ers – into rational, honorable citizens retaking this degenerate nation from vile elite swine & MINOs.

    People take the path of least resistance – and they’re scared. So they hide within fun & games: They’ve become comfy with sexting, pizza & NetFlix. They’re scared to even face how much blood it will take…so they whistle past the graveyard…

    But, the bloodshed will happen any way. Eventually. Just who does the killing and who does the dying is all that’s left to decide.”

  46. Most of us will go to our deathbeds realizing that we didn’t do enough. Our “old-selves” already time-traveled from that future to “now” and told our 2018-selves that we aren’t doing enough. And we still don’t do enough.

    Lone vigilantism is the domain of a rare kind of person. For everyone else, if you aren’t a monkey don’t try to swing from branches and if you aren’t a dolphin don’t swim out into the ocean. We do what we can.

    I’ve come to believing that twenty million armed patriots, without institutional leadership (legal or clandestine) won’t do anything to any positive effect. Only the rare lone talent like Breivik can, and if you aren’t him, you aren’t him. If you are him, you already know it and you don’t comment about that stuff online.

    That Eradica thread was written during the nadir of Obama’s second term, April 2015. The darkest time in American history. Trump did not announce his candidacy until June of that year. Trump is a smart man, divinely guided. Is he setting up an institutional leadership column (legal or clandestine) that will draw on the talents of the twenty million armed patriots, should Plan A fail?

    It’s all speculation about forces larger than ourselves. Do the best you can on the personal level and other things will start falling into place.

  47. Those are the WNs I’d like to hear from, because they have paid the highest price.

    Well then go commune with the dead.

    Ryu, people are ‘enslaved’ to their socialization.

    The group level — which is a much more operant concept than the cliche of scale — at which that socialization occurs, is the relevant factor in our forward evolution.

    The global scale that we are running on, may not be something that we can escape.

    Not for now, at least.

    White people have to represent themselves, at that global level, as explicitly White and in charge of at least their own countries.

    Doing so does not require psychopathy and sadism. In fact such things are repulsive and counter indicated.

    Ryu you say yourself that people don’t want it. What they don’t want is your war scenario fantasy. 2 and 2 equals 4. Iow find something else to sell.

  48. — I’ve come to believing that twenty million armed patriots, without institutional leadership (legal or clandestine) won’t do anything to any positive effect.

    This should be qualified. The AltRight arose without institutional leadership. Identitarian action in Europe presumably too. So there’s more to be said about that.

  49. WN unsurprisingly does attract some low quality people. Of course the media does everything it can to spot light these people. I don’t know much about him, but Heimbach does not seem to be leadership material. High quality white people are not going to like being pushed around or told they need to bow down before non-whites. I know many white people (some quite liberal) who, on a personal level, would not put up with abuse because they are white. There is no need to alienate them by telling them they are not extreme enough.
    Female bullying serves a purpose too. Looking back, I realize that when I was socially ostracized or ganged upon by other girls it was because of my own socially undesirable behavior. If someone is incapable of fixing the undesirable behavior, I think the bullying is just mean. In my case, I was able to change and improve, so it helped me.

  50. Yesterday, I texted a liberal family member “I assume you value both, but which is more important to you diversity & inclusion or free speech rights?”. I have not discussed politics with this person for a while. He texted me right back basically saying it would depend on the situation and the two are not mutually exclusive. He used the example of shouting “fire” in a crowded movie theater. He ended up saying that free speech is not something we should give up lightly. I didn’t push at all and let him have the last word. It got him thinking about free speech. Anyway, I’m realizing this is a better strategy than trying to win every argument.

    [True. Liberals turtle-up and double down when you try to hammer your point. Better to leave him thinking about what you said. For it to work, give zero concession to his point of view — PA]

  51. Isn’t shouting fire one of the canonical examples of limits to free speech since times immemorial (pre-diversity)? Very low-effort dodging, I say.

  52. We all operate on a spectrum, and it’s not just the autiste one. Obviously, extreme positions will not be taken by the fat and happy well-adjusted so there will of course be some unacceptable people in a movement like this, because only they have the personalities to be the vanguard, to be here (and be here before we got here).

    If I had my say, they would each of them get a nice farm in the countryside of their White country as thanks. But that’s for the future. So I’ll just say I appreciate their efforts and commitment.

  53. And to the Deep State agents reading this … You know we’re right. Sometimes you have to serve a higher purpose than just your crazy superior.

  54. Plumpjack…

    Who do you trust amongst wn?

    Again, the well FED will be amongst “us” whether Ryu is here or not.

    The question is whether the well FED can be converted to wS?

    But shoot, jew think these are the well FED, too.

    The most powerful entity on the globe is the Grey Pope.

    There is a race to the (S)ingularity…

    Its victor is the Master Race.

    This is what a wS memes when he hails the falsification of “universal equality.”

    What do think a Master Race is other than the global imposition of “equality?”

  55. “Plumpjack, Who do you trust amongst wn?”

    it’s easier to describe who I DISTRUST. I distrust those who haven’t thought through the consequences of their actions. I ESPECIALLY distrust those who peddle overly simplified, fantastical solutions to incredibly persistent and complex problems.

    I would like to have any so-called “white nationalist” answer me three questions:

    1: why, when we had countries that were more white than they are today, were those countries doing Dresden on each other?

    2: if you answer “well because Jews brainwashed/culture-jammed/manipulated those countries”, or whatever, then what has changed that would prevent white countries from becoming seduced into doing Dresden on each other again? because… 1% super whites have taken over the world and all is well? color me skeptical.

    3. if brainwashing/culture-jamming/manipulation made whites do Dresdens, then why would we need to do violence on each other? why wouldn’t we just do brainwashing/culture-jamming/manipulation if it is ultimately a more powerful weapon?

    I’m being kind here and accepting that WN might be a viable ideology. (personally I think it’s too self-serious/snowflakes. objective excellence would make a better frame.) but let’s say it is viable, what comes next, after burning the existing world to the ground? I’m SO curious.

  56. Plumpjack…

    You avoided answering the question.

    Ryu trusts the “violent extremists” of wn.

    I trust those who willfully embrace wS.

    SeparatIon is the only GLOBAL taboo.

    This leaves the individual white in the position of annihilation and/or eradicating.

    Ryu trusts those who will eradicate the para-sights.

    I trust those desirous of separation.

    Who do you trust?

  57. But to answer your questions specifically:

    1. The mass of “whites” are self-annihilating anti-racists.

    2. The Jew qua Jew is also a self-annihilator ALTHOUGH learned in the dark art of ideological and religious perpetuation.

    3. If most people are self-annihilators INCLUDING most “whites” then doing violence to self-annihilators (eradicating them) could very well be for your own survival.

    What Ryu is really saying when he says that he trusts the “violent extremist” with a psychopathic nigger attitude is that Ryu trusts those types of “white nationalists” to survive the inevitable calamity.

  58. “Who do you trust?”


    let’s just say I trust someone who has a plan to win. an actual PLAN, not some flimsy ideology based on a white fantasy world that never existed. white countries did all this shit that led to where we are today. but somehow things will be different once we get our white countries back. just eliminate the parasites. smdh.

    you’ve heard of biology? parasitism/symbiosis has been a life system since the beginning. so, yeah, to eliminating the parasites would mean eliminating all life itself. great plan. let’s do it.

    “The Jew qua Jew is also a self-annihilator ALTHOUGH learned in the dark art of ideological and religious perpetuation.”

    oh, right. I forgot. only Jews are capable of spreading and maintaining a cultural narrative. we whites, we can’t do that stuff. because narrative propagation is dark. let’s kill everyone we don’t agree with instead. because that’s like, an art of light. smdh.

    look, we lose to the Jews because they stay connected and we don’t. we lose to the Jews because the only time we ever rally together is to fight a war, ANY war. that’s why we lose.

    yeah, we have a parasite problem. that’s what happens when you go your separate ways and leave the narrative to for grabs and leave other whites to fend for themselves. they go get help from someone else. and Jews are always willing to help someone in need in order to further their agenda.

    but we’re going to be burn everything down and/or separate so we can all be disconnected lone wolves in our own countries again, somehow free from parasites.


  59. [L]et’s just say I trust someone who has a plan to win.. — Plumpjack

    A plan to win WHAT?

    And this “plan” is either by “any means necessary” or not?

    In short, you are claiming to trust those who plan to win by any means necessary?

  60. by any means necessary, yes. but I don’t hear Ryu or you talking about any means necessary. I hear you guys talking about the same means that have been tried, and have failed, an infinity number times: just kill em all.

  61. Plumpjack…

    To operate by “any means necessary” is to be “terminable without consent.” Ergo, “radical autonomy” is self-annihilating.

    YOU need a plan of healthy perpetuation.

    YOU should not trust self-annihilators.

    Ryu is stuck on “white (s)upremacy” as “radical autonomy,” ie., operation by any means necessary.


    That which jew call “fantasy…”

    Is the will to (P)erfection.

    This will towards objective (S)upremacy is racial

    This racist will to (P)erfection is the antithesis of “radical autonomy” and operation by “any means necessary.”

    This racist will to (P)erfection is the very being substantiating the immorality of murder.

    The One-Step Plan:

    Do not damn your SELF.

    In other words, START YOUR plan by forsaking all acts of self-annihilation.

    PS Ryu has not yet dropped his fascination with self-annihilation and therefore will not advance to white (S)upremacy.

  62. “A plan to win WHAT?”

    the license/legitimacy to do whether the fuck we want. for a start.

    but of course getting there would require the “dark arts of ideological and religious perpetuation”, so I guess it’s a non starter.

    so yeah, just blow everything up and make the rivers run with blood and people will eventually come around. that’s what history tells us, right?

  63. Plumpjack…

    Some of “us” already decided to momentarily put ourselves at the bottom of the “rabbit hole.” Yet, because the “rabbit hole” is simply an “infinite regress,” we instead conceptualize total annihilation. By “torture” FOR THOSE DRAWN to self-annihilation. In other words, those visualizing torturous annihilation at the bottom of the “rabbit hole” are in a state of “radical autonomy.” “They” are perpetuating self-annihilators.

    What is needed is a vision and desire for objective (S)upremacy.

    But this ^^^ vision and desire IS RACIST.

    Therefore, anti-racists CANNOT POSSESS a vision and desire for (P)erfection. The anti-racist is a perpetuating self-annihilator. The anti-racist ENVISIONS a torturous annihilation at the bottom of the “rabbit hole.”

    White man’s First Law:

    Do not damn thyself.

    Operating by “any means necessary” is EXACTLY such self-damnation.

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