Plumpjack writes a comment at Chateau Heartiste. Read and think it over, it’s worth your time:
It doesn’t matter because ultimately “white nationalism” is not a narrative that will sell. It is a reactionary, defensive, identity-based movement which makes it easy for the culture mongers to put it in the same category as the other snowflake reactionary movements.
When you have millions and millions and millions of white-skinned people who are beyond saving and/or who are openly eager to show that they can fit the shotgun barrel deeper into their mouths than the white person standing next to them it won’t work to put yourself in the same category as them simply because they have the same color skin. Dumb.
Further, the ACTUAL resistance could care less about the label. Only the media cares. It could be called woke nationalism. Chad nationalism. Biodiversity nationalism. Expose the JQ nationalism. Deport them all nationalism. Renaissance nationalism. Truth nationalism. The name could change every week, and it wouldn’t matter. Because ultimately WN is NOT the new narrative. It’s a reactionary movement that so far hasn’t distinguished itself very well from other reactionary movements except for being extra retarded. If the media can kill it in its crib then it wasn’t a viable thing anyway.
I don’t know what the new narrative is, but if it’s not based on winning (ACTUAL winning, not “heh heh I got white skin so I’m extra special”) then it won’t last. IOW, there’s nothing special about whiteness if it doesn’t take things to a new level.
There’s no white utopia to go back to. There’s no going back to Germania. We have to formulate a new thing. Bigger. Better. Stronger. Faster. Winning. Offense, not defense. If we’re better than everyone else then we actually have to BE BETTER. And better means knocking it out of the park.
Personally I don’t think an identity movement of any kind is useful. If anything, we should identify ourselves with truth, life, humor, creativity, and beauty, and leave it at that. Refuse to be categorized as anything that the media can sink its teeth into. That WILL sell far better than nerds in brownshirts wanting to go back to some nonexistent white Utopia.
And, yes, you can be truthful, beautiful and deadly all at the same time. They are not exclusive of one another.
***
There were many responses. I’ll only post a few. Jay in DC agrees:
Poetry. This should be COTW. I -hate- the term WN. I feel fucking dirty just saying it much less anyone trying to bring it anywhere near me or my ideologies.
Yes I share some common goals, but beyond that, we couldn’t be anymore different. It is a failed movement of non-action losers who have, at best, a very dim understanding of human socio-dynamics. It also tends to attract the dimmest bulbs and the nazi larpers and all the other detritus that fucking drag us down.
No WN for me, thanks very much. Take that dumb shit back to the Mein Kampf Book Club Reading. Not it…
***
Cortesar disagrees with the original comment. After some back and forth with Plumpjack, he writes:
So let me further examine your fear of a “reactionary” movement. Reaction is a natural reaction of a healthy organism to the action which in this case amounts to at least 60 years of poisoning. In terms of political movements it represents a political force that want to reverse a decline and go to the last sane society that existed before the corruption.
You know, it is like when you do your crappy windows update which fucks your comp and you restore it to the previous state. It is called a Reactionary Windows Update. Reactionary movement as a political force first came into being after the French Revolution and 2 men that defined it most were Edmund Burke and Joseph de Maistre.
You say that you want to live in accordance with truth and beauty but you must be aware that you live in the ugliest and most deceitful society that ever existed. Do you want to go back where the beauty still ruled supreme and where human honesty and straightforwardness counted for something. Are you a latent reactionary?
***
Plumpjack replies:
I agree that “reacting” is the first step. If the reactors’ only goal and vision is to “go to the last sane society that existed before the corruption” then we’re patently fucked because the problems that came before set the stage for the problems we face today.
It was a “white nationalist” society (by default) that passed Civil Rights, legalized abortion, enacted women’s suffrage, sent millions of their best and brightest off to go kill each other etc., etc.. Is going BACK to that somehow going to mean we’ve solved the manifold divisions in white society that got us here in the first place? That’s beyond fantasy. It’s delusional.
Reacting is not enough. It’s innovate or perish. That is my point.
***
Now me, PA: this is World War III, except that instead of tanks and troops, global mass migration in tandem with the police state is the enemy’s weapon of force, CultMarx is his weapon of deception. Eyes on victory day: waking up and taking a step out your door and into the sunlight, just like its always been.
Here are some of my posts on the big questions:
- Progress. The post explains everything.
- There is no going back to civic nationalism. It worked briefly as a concession to the untenable Civil Rights when the country was mostly White.
- An American Nationalist Visits Warsaw is about White rivalry and solidarity.
- What About The Mixed-Race People calls for proper boundaries.
- We need our left half.
First we need to reclaim our ethnic identities. We must make the distinction between paper nationalities and ethnicities. This will be much easier in Europe. We must insist that Somalis are not Swedes, That Nigerians and Sikhs are not English. This will be harder in the Americas, as our ethnicities, the ones that formed in the Americas are being stolen from us and redistributed.
“…enacted women’s suffrage…”
The two former American presidents I have in my direct bloodline would vehemently oppose this. Me? I say let only the proven prostitutes vote; keep the housewives and queens on the motherfukkking stove, tending the roasted duck and olive-oiled yams.
Just throwing that out there.
WN is a failed movement, I readily admit this.
We are only a very small portion of the population. The average white is almost too stupid to save. They still think they are free, that the West is first world, the American dream is possible, etc.
I’m doing this because it is the only thing left to do other than drop out and expat.
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Plumpjack is right when he says the movement needs to about truth, strength, and quality, or in other words: Excellence. “Arete” as the Greeks called it – virtue (not in the moralistic sense but in the beauty sense). It is the opposite of the Equality that is the moral touchstone of the Left. The Left are all people who are weak in some way and seek to win in life by adopting a morality that says “Equality” is the highest value, and not Excellence. We are people who yearn for beauty and truth, and are repelled by the degeneracy of the Left.
So yes, Excellence is and has to be our central value.
But what Plumpjack misses is that an important aspect of Excellence is Truth, and the Truth includes facts about human nature, such as that people naturally group together by close genetic kinship: by family, clan, and race, etc. This is a fact. This is truth. And any successful ideology has to take that into account, not ignore it or make it anathema as the Left does.
Plumpjack is probably a young guy who is discouraged and angry and, because white nationalism has so far been successfully demonized by the mass media, wants to disassociate himself from something that can be demonized like that. He wants to find some identity group that can’t be attacked the way the white identity group is being attacked.
But you can’t, because the truth that family/clan/race matters a lot to human beings is wired into our DNA. Plumpjack, if thrown into prison, would quickly ally with the other whites in the prison, regardless of how repulsive they are and how much he would prefer to focus on truth, strength, beauty, and other kinds of Excellence. In a prison it would not work for Plumpjack to announce that he is forming a new identity group, the Excellence identity group, and men of all races are welcome to join his Excellence identity group as long as they believe in Excellence. Such a group would quickly dissolve as the unavoidable racial differences in the members pulled it apart.
It’s like the short-lived experiment in the Soviet Union in the 20s or 30s where they decided that the only way to reach true communism was for the state to raise the children rather than their parents. In an area where this was tried, parents were compelled to leave their children with a state institution where they would be raised. This lasted a very short period of time because the parents would not stand for it. The innate bond between parent and child was stronger than any ideology. The authorities quickly abandoned the plan.
People of all races can and should pursue Excellence as the best path to a good and satisfying life, and all should scorn Equality as a moral and social value. But Excellence dictates that we separate by ethnic identity into our own countries, just as Excellence dictates that families separate into their own homes/apartments/dwellings rather than all living in common quarters.
Are-Why-You…
You don’t understand expats. They roll rather too thickly for you, boy. Drink a soda water and give up.
Venus is still “an option,” don’t worry!!
–‘EPG’
— forming a new identity group, the Excellence identity group, and men of all races are welcome to join his Excellence identity group as long as they believe in Excellence. Such a group would quickly dissolve as the unavoidable racial differences in the members pulled it apart. (Jim-Bob)
Single-issue bloggers made similar efforts not-quite-ten years ago, particularly on manosphere’s MRA and other anti-feminist sites. To the extent I followed those comment threads, I saw discord between White and nonWhite commenters kicking in quite early, in some cases followed by heavy-handed censorship of comments that could be deemed racist.
There was one particularly loathsome character who infested Dalrock’s comments section a while back. Judging by the host’s terse replies, he was barely tolerated. He was a US-born Subcontinental who onanistically enthused “Hey, let’s all of us Gamesmen (sic) crash church services for the purpose pump-n-dumping evangelical girls… you know, we’ll be doing all those betas a favor by shielding them from future divorce-rape!”
Then, there were MRA commenters who homoerotically cried “muh black allies” the moment someone, somewhere criticized a black. One sputtered in defense of mudsharking: “How can you deny your fellow man a chance at happiness!”
Things got dishonest quickly. Most of those blogs either closed, or became White as their commentariat naturally race-sorted.
Things got more interesting when the bloggers themselves stared showing signs of growing race-partisanship, like at The Spearhead.
A note about nonWhite allies, with or without “muh.” To the extent that your potential allies are needed and reliable under fire… You’re doing it wrong when connecting with them from the position of weakness. When you do that, they come to you not for mutual benefit, but the goodies. Inclusivity is supplication and nobody respects a beggar.
Self-respect is the starting point of strength. Useful allies, as opposed to moochers, are attracted to that.
Self-respect is the starting point of strength. Useful allies, as opposed to moochers, are attracted to that.
I agree. I could be a cordial “ally” with a member of another ethnic identity group who was also committed to excellence – including the truth that ethnicities need their own separate countries like families need their own separate homes.
Where it would become less cordial is where it became clear that I want them out of the USA and they don’t intend to go back to their homelands, which are usually shitholes and which they probably don’t fit in to well anyway. You can’t get away from human beings sorting into identity groups and competing for territory and resources. It is wired into us like love for our children or the need to breathe and eat.
The idealistic Left wants an “Imagine” world without borders or religion or possessions but while that is a nice ideal in a fantasy like Star Trek, it doesn’t work in the real world any better than the Soviet experiment with taking children from their parents did.
The great thing about all of this is that in the long run, Excellence always wins. Truth ultimately always wins. We can argue about this and that, but if we become excellent white men and find one another and bind together, we eventually win. Or we don’t, if we are not actually excellent enough. Either way, Excellence wins. That’s the side to bet on. And damn, it feels so much better than “Equality”.
Excellence today is pissing against the wind. That approach is for the few, not the many.
LOL Firepower used to compare this to reading Horace in the Pantheon ruins at night to glowing eyes and the howling of wolves.
There’s a WN called Hell by the Dashboard Light. He talks about “the nigger mindset.”
Instead of going higher, go lower. Chase those gibbs. Max out your bennies, get some HUB and food stamp action. If white women don’t want to get married, just knock all the single mothers you can. They’ll get more gibs without a dad in the picture.
EPG,
How long have you been 1488?
Most of these people aren’t waking up. Our basic points in 2018 are the same points of 1988 and the same as 1968.
The USG should have collapse decades ago. Hope, Murkan stupidity and the Surveillence State have kept it going.
Most WNs will quit after a long enough time. I understand the attraction of poolside.
Just as nationalism is on the rise among whites, creatures like plumpjack appear to obfuscate and misdirect. He attacks white nationalism not because it is a loser, but because it is a threat. All while feigning concern and sympathy with our cause.
In the internet age, when so much cannot be proven to a certainty, we must of necessity become betting men. My money says that plumpjack is a kike. Even if I’m wrong about that, his post is entirely consistent with the sort of misdirection that the tribe enjoys pushing. They understand the potency of white nationalism (even if a fair number of its so-called adherents do not), and the challenge to the system that it will inevitably present in the coming decades.
“…the attraction of poolside.”
Medusa’s buns
Are warm for Ol’ Greedy
“Near-seismic tons”
Feel The Dead Sea grow needy!
In basic subterfuge, even the lies aren’t truthful.
The anti-white (S)upremacist is, by definition, a kike, a nigger, a migger, a homo, dyke sand jigger.
In the LIE that is desire for “equality” tis not even an explicit hatred for (S)upremacy.
Per inversion, the truth is hatred for white (S)upremacy and desire for “white” self-annihilation. This is the “enemy.” “Terminable without consent.” A truly fascinating spectacle.
In other words, “poolside” is where deracinated quitters go to drown in indifference. “Indifference” being a mere variant of “radical autonomy,” ie., self-annihilation.
The currency must flow and pools are lethal conductors. “Poolside” is “brink of annihilation.”
The dumb part is proposing to atomize the movement into various semi-related civic clubs. Worst advice, think harder. I too would thus guess Plumpjack doesn’t qualify for the ethnostate.
The possibly useful part is that it might do good to stop dreaming and start thinking about what this future ethnostate will look like and how to actually get there.
It won’t be the kiked least-effort LARP democracy we have today.
Ryu wrote: There’s a WN called Hell by the Dashboard Light. He talks about “the nigger mindset.” Instead of going higher, go lower.
I understand the temptation to throw up your hands in frustration and say, “let it all burn.”
That said, a right-wing writer whose name I’ve forgotten wrote about how there are different dimensions of war. The highest and most important is the moral dimension. If you don’t win the moral war, you can’t sustain any conquests made with the other, physical dimensions of war.
The Left has come as far as they have because for more than 60 years they’ve been fighting the moral war using “the long march through the institutions,” gaining control over the education system and teaching that the highest moral value is Equality. They drum that message into the population with almost every newscast, TV and movie plot, political speech, and classroom assignment. And it has succeeded because on a certain level the idea of Equality (if left vaguely undefined) appeals to the sense of fair play we have.
Do you think you’re going to defeat the Equality morality by behaving like the lowest black degenerates? Is that the moral example that is going to win people to our cause? All that kind of behavior does is cause the Left to smile and point and say, “see what kind of people oppose us?” The degenerate behavior of blacks and others on the Left is one of the best things we’ve got going for us. They are setting a VERY low standard of behavior for us to beat.
Jordan Peterson annihilated that British female interviewer not by being a bigger degenerate than blacks, but by being calm, reasonable, articulate, very well-prepared, and by very carefully listening to the woman’s words and demolishing her arguments. Leftists are terrible at that kind of debate because Equality is counter to reality and thus they cannot summon reasoned arguments to their side. They have to rely on emotion and generalities and platitudes.
The kind of self-control and Excellence that Peterson displayed in that interview is how we win the moral argument and thus win the war. We have to conduct ourselves like men of honor. We have to be leaner, stronger, smarter, more prepared, and more emotionally self-controlled than our enemies. We have to have a superior morality to offer – and there is one: Excellence. And it also inherently appeals to human beings. And it is truthfully a superior morality to Equality, which means that if presented consistently, calmly, and patiently by men who display Excellence in their bodies, clothes, personality, and life, will eventually defeat Equality.
The great thing is that when you pursue Excellence, every day you get better. And when your enemies pursue Equality, every day they get weaker. We are going to be tempered and hardened in this civilizational fire. And we’re going to win, because over the long term, Excellence always wins.
Here’s another thought on how we win the moral war: do not parade through the streets with torches. That is reminiscent of Nazi rallies and sends the message that we are like Nazis.
Parade through the streets like old-fashioned American patriots. The traditional American iconography is what we win with. American flags. Apple pie. Especially George Washington and the Founding Fathers, because they were all white men and they were racially aware (see the 1790 Naturalization Act that limited citizenship to “white people of good character”). March along with a fife and drum set like that famous painting “The Spirit of ’76”.
Patriotism like that, appeal to traditional American iconography, drives the Left crazy because it denies them the ability to easily classify us as Nazis without classifying the Founding Fathers as Nazis, and you really can’t quite get away with that yet. If were going to organize an Alt-Right parade, it would be of the cleanest, fittest, handsomest white men and women I could find, wearing nice clean, well-fitting, and marching along with American flags and a great big picture of the Founding Fathers. They would be a mass of people exuding Excellence.
That’s what Martin Luther King did with the Civil Rights marches in the South. He and his people dressed up nice and clean in nice suits, and walked along with quiet dignity and self-control, and let the bad behavior of the white onlookers screaming at them and setting dogs and fire hoses on them win the moral war.
If we could have such a parade, nothing would be better than to have these strong, composed white men and women marching along with the American flag while masses of black-clad Antifa and purple-haired obese sexual freaks spat on them and hit them and threatened them. That kind of visual is what wins the moral war for us. Not LARPing as Nazis with torches.
To know what was is to be conscious.
To know what is is to be conscientious.
To know (P)erfection is Higher Consciousness.
High IQ white man is in a terrible psychological war between all three states of being (and generally approximated to his personal politics). His evil side denies the latter and disputes the former leaving a fanatical desire for the sinter. His angelic side desires the latter and so forth infuses captivating meaning to its formers thereby only exacerbating his original desire.
In this seemingly chaotic exchange JUST IS high intelligence as white man knows it. As a class, high IQ “white” self-annihilators are dominate. High IQ white (S)upremacists are negligible. Yet, this is a certain truth in and of itself. Ergo, from an objectively race-realist perspective, it is a strictly “white man’s” affair. The extreme vision of “reality” of the mass of “white” self-annihilators COUPLED with the Higher Consciousness of a negligible number of white (S)upremacists is all that is necessary for an internecine war of unrelenting endurance that an implacable enemy diminutively denounces as “white (s)upremacy.”
It’s all in how you read Plumpjack’s “It’s innovate or perish”
James Bowery’s articulation of Force and Deception (which Suburban_elk commented on here of late and which I gave a nod to in the original post) are two main kinds of weapons. In liberal West, we have to rely on Deception because our governments have a monopoly on the use of force and are inclined to use it against us. This makes them our enemy, and one we aren’t equipped to stand up to with our own application of force.
To survive, we have to use Deception, something Jews are more at home with than we are. But here we are. I’d love to have more of the people I know read my cool blog, but I keep this whole affair secret from all but a handful of the most trusted people. Hence I am PA, two letters I picked on idiosyncratic whim 16 years ago when I started this whole business of commenting. And you are [your handle].
So with regards to the tentative accusations levied at Plumpjack, it all depends on whether he (1) uses “innovate,” very broadly, denoting an evasion-adaptation that is the necessity of our circumstances, and (2) whether he endorses White survival as a condition of forever having to “sneak around” or “innovate” rather than — when so desired and in our best interest — fuck off with the innovation hamster wheel and sometimes just rest, enjoy the fields and the forests, be who we are, stop running — be able to avail ourselves of that FORCE when so inclined. Like with enforced borders, for example.
I see no evidence No. 2 applying to Plumpjack’s comments.
The goal of WN / nationalism / anti-globalism / AltRight is to create a world in which we have access to Force as free men and citizens, however internally libertarian or authoritative our various White states we envision.
An illustration: whatever the Soviet Union’s many faults, it did, in specific instances, apply the use of state Force on the behalf of its people. One example is its earnest investment in the cultivation of high culture. If you showed talent you were trained, at full expense of the state, to thrive as a musician in the national philharmonic. That was the state’s FORCEful fuck-you to the elemental forces of the market. An imposition of its will on behalf of talent and civilization.
But the Soviet Union fell, and that is rightly called, in broad strokes, a tragedy. Because talented musicians and their listeners lost something very valuable with the fall of the state and its fortuitous projection of Force. Now, the first chair violinist and his younger aspirants had to INNOVATE — use Deception — to get by, starting with the talented musician having to retrain in more marketable skills. Like begging on a Berlin subway.
The (((neocon))) free market makes us all that disinherited violinist. Like when they say “niggers are moving into your neighborhood? don’t kick them out, do White flight!” “Romney moved your job overseas? George W says go to a community college! get a moving van!”
Plumpjack has made points, over time, about the problem of complacency under White governments. He posts pics of a dead G.I. on Normandy beach, with arriving parties setting up a field ops station while darn near walking over the dead teenager like he’s roadkill. He says we have to avoid falling into the same pattern of throwing ourselves to the meatgrinder, and that requires vigilance, which requires some friggin brains. The comment thread I quoted in the main post is quite open ended. It’s possible to see different things in it.
For my part in response to those comments, I listed my absolutes in the links to five of my older posts at the bottom of the posts. Most importantly, that we need our Left Half — including our own working class. We need the full robust social pyramid. I am wary of any message that limits the White destiny to our best & brightest. We are full nations, not rootless cosmopolitans.
A message that limits the white race’s destiny to the “best and brightest” fully aware that this cabal, almost to a “man,” is compiled of General Entropists is a devil’s note
Our “best and brightest”
Imaginative failures!
General Entropists
To a tee.
Goof-balled
Swung-out
Star-studded cell-ebb “pretty.”
Sub-zero integrity
And nigger diss-ease!
Tiger wood
Only in the dreams.
Parred to his course
Where no birdies sing.
The (w)hole in one
A most racist thing…
“Greater in the head”
With supernova sting.
PA: “It’s all in how you read Plumpjack’s “It’s innovate or perish”
There is no doubt that we must innovate, and it’s certainly the case that there is no going back, only forward. It’s also true that, for example, the precise conditions that gave rise to 50’s culture will never exist again, ergo 50’s culture will never exist again (not that I consider said culture to be something necessarily worth aspiring to, but that’s another story).
Yet plumpjack employs these fairly obvious truths to attack white identity. Aside from being a ridiculous non-sequitur, this is as disingenuous as claiming, in the name of going forward, that we can never build beautiful buildings again, or create great art again, or have a sexual culture worthy of our people again. You know, because those things are in the “past.”
This sort of sophistry is cheap and silly. And very, very jewish. Combined with his other misrepresentations of white nationalism, I’m not inclined to view plumpjack as having our best interests at heart. I doubt it’s a coincidence that, just as white identity begins to rise, we get “friends” telling us that white identity is for losers.
The reality is that our enemies see the power in white identity – they want it strangled in the crib.
PA: “I am wary of any message that limits the White destiny to our best & brightest. We are full nations, not rootless cosmopolitans.”
As am I. It’s another case of “authentic nationalism for me, civic nationalism for thee.” Civic nationalism that, of course, allows jews to ride herd on the goyim.
I saw an outcast in a hot tub.
There were desserts nearby.
Greece awoke, & grew a chub.
Mrs. Pangea said “bye bye bye..”
— Greece awoke, & grew a chub.
Lord Byron’s untimely end: WN or something else?
thanks, PA. good discussion. that was the point of my post, to stimulate a discussion. not to attack white identity, but to debate what that actually means.
there are a few things about the WN narrative that get my panties all up in a bunch.
one is that it doesn’t go far enough. “whites deserve their own countries!” okayyy…but… we had our own countries before. if our white identity wasn’t cohesive enough to hold onto them then, then what is going to bind us together now? is there a long term plan here? are we just going to get our countries back so that we can all go back to enjoying our families and tending to our gardens? how long do you expect that to last? 50 years? 100? 1000? is it all about home and hearth, or are we empire building? can you build an empire on white skin alone?
another problem with the WN narrative is that it completely overlooks why whites were/are so willing to go to war with EACH OTHER. if whiteness is such a unifying identity, then why Normandy? why Dresden? why Gettysburg? (that’s why I post the picture of the dead soldier on Omaha Beach.) why did we turn our cultural narrative over to foreigners? have we really learned our lesson? what’s different now?
yet another issue with the WN narrative is the implied “white supremacy” branding. it’s a bad branding issue in an age where branding matters. if we’re truly supreme then why the affirmative action title? what about all the whites who are traitors, cucks, etc. etc. why do they get to be members of the white club while someone like sherriff david clarke does not? are we insecure about our merits as whites? master race narrative is no better than chosen people narrative. why declare it. it’s snowflake branding. BE the supremacy. don’t declare it. declaring it is for kangz!
when I say “innovate or perish” i mean we’re going to have to embrace a narrative that handles ALL the things. ALLLLL the things. not just race, but also unleashed hypergamy, nuclear weapons, resource scarcity. the things that effect everyone. you think you’re going to escape the world’s problems just by having your own country of fellow whites? you think the civilization wreckers won’t call on pakistan or india for a favor against some uppity WNs? better have a solid plan.
Jay in DC that sheds some light on I’m talking about:
“The problem with you people is subterfuge is a word you can barely spell much less understand and it [is] critically important. Marching around in your nazi larper gear is definitely going to sway public opinion. It has worked so well for WN for the last few decades, innit?”
https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2018/02/15/4chan-trolled-the-media-and-it-may-not-matter/#comment-964434
my point is not that WN is a failed movement. my point is that we Whites need to embrace a much more compelling narrative if we truly want to be the Master Race. we can’t kill EVERYBODY, which means we’re going have to be accountable and get along with people. we’re going to have to engage in noblesse oblige. we can have OTHER people saying that whites are the greatest thing ever, but we can’t be saying that about yourselves (except in private). that means having a more sophisticated narrative. a narrative based on Truth that holds everyone to the same high standard. the HIGHEST standard, which we ourselves live up to.
standards. now THAT is whiteness. and when you present it that way it is packaged it gives plausible deniability because we all know who rises to the top when there are STANDARDS. that’s the subterfuge Jay in DC is talking about. Jews do it too. they say “EQUALITY” but they really mean “Ruled by the Chosenites”. Well, we say “Truth and Beauty” but we really mean “Ruled by Whites”, AND truth and beauty.
branding. the shit works. whites need to learn it.
That sounds like more of the same old same old. “Don’t try because you don’t have an answer for every hypothetical scenario I can come up with.” “Identy X doesn’t matter because you still might not like another member.”
The issue is that you want a perfect ideological framework. You want the end of history but with a new set of ideals. The problem is that the world is not and will never be that simple.
There is no perfect answer, and even if there was it would be outdated tomorrow. Stop letting the perfect be the enmy of the good.
I recommend “the nigger mindset” because it makes WN pay.
Many engage in WN and they don’t get anything for their work. This isn’t charity. No one should be expecting these big sacrifices made for nothing and preaching to ungrateful wretches.
I advocate selfishness.
Be a WN for you. Duty, honor? Fine sounding ideals. They only work if you have the big money as the USG does.
“Stop letting the perfect be the enmy of the good.”
it’s not good. it’s one dimensional.
WNs still have to get into power first. how do you propose they do that? are you going to just walk up and take it? and without a sense of humor? good luck with that.
look, think of white interests as a business. in business there’s no stasis. if you’re not expanding you’re dying. because if you try to just hold your ground and protect your little niche, then it’s only a matter of time before someone else comes in and does what you’re doing better, faster, and cheaper. (think China).
it’s no different with white interests. if we’re not expanding but are instead retreating to our own little e-t-h-n-o-s-t-a-t-e-s then you’re basically dying and you’re only postponing the inevitable for a few more decades, at most.
at the very least I propose calling White Nationalism “Snowflake Nationalism”. if we’re going to go the “we’re special” route culturally and politically then we may as well have a good laugh at ourselves while exposing the other side for doing the exact same thing (minus the humor).
take a lesson from the Jews: one of the ways you win the culture with humor. (you DO realize World War 3 is a culture war, don’t you?)
“I recommend “the nigger mindset” because it makes WN pay.
…
I advocate selfishness.”
I hear that’s worked out really well for Africa.
WN is a selfish endeavor.
We want to steal money, power and women from our enemies and give it to our own kin. That is a selfish act.
I know how to make WN pay for the practitioner. The better you get, the more you will make. Or, you can spend years of your life trying to “educate” people, and in about 5 years you will be burned out.
I enjoy visiting the third world.
The problem is, whites are soft. In the third world, you need money and power, or else you are nothing. You can bribe cops and with enough $$$ you can bribe politicians. It is a wonderful thing everyone should experience.
WNs of a certain type can find all the freedom they want in the third world. In many ways, morality is holding whites back.
“The reality is that our enemies see the power in white identity – they want it strangled in the crib.”
it’s already out of the crib. it’s now a toddler, and it will soon be running around breaking things.
so WNs have dealt with the basic problem of creating a new, separate identity from their forbears. you’re now a toddler. (congratulations!) now comes accountability. having your own country is a slightly more complicated business.
what kind of accountability are the WNs going to hold one another to? are you going to look after your citizens? are you going to provide them with good, working infrastructure? good schools? healthcare? military? a solid currency and a growing economy?
are you somehow going to be able pull all that off without taking out any Jew loans? self-financing your ethnostate, I suppose?
you’ll make zero compromises on ANY WN principles, even if it means your people suffer?
think it through. sooner or later WNs are going to have to deal with the nuts and bolts of running their own societies. and I suspect you’ll very quickly realize that you want more power and resources, and that means making some compromises on your purity pledges.
I agree about the deception part. I was once accused of being crazy for merely suggesting that a Jewish person might be somewhat biased on certain issues due to being Jewish. That’s when I realized I need to be very careful. Some of these left wing people are absolute fanatics, even when they appear reasonable at first.
There are many levels to a discussion like this. They range from individual strategies on up to statesmanship.
We already have White ethnostates. They are called England, Germany, Sweden, Untited States of America. They just happen to be under foreign occupation. The United States, presently under the largest invasion in human history, comes with its own questions. Is it too big and too diverse among her White citizens and if so is originalist States Rights interpretation of the Constitution the answer?
Nationalist movements have mainstream models that are adapted to the time and place. Viktor Orban’s model works for Hungary under its present circumstances. MAGA is USA’s last chance at peaceful resolution, feverishly resisted by her domestic enemies.
Lara, you’re right about the Left-wing fanatics being dangerous. If you haven’t seen it, check out this video of a professor who bragged about chasing the Charlottesville driver with a gun. He’s “ambushed” by an guy asking him about it and his response is instant aggression.
https://youtu.be/kcFfz7TtPog
That is guy who psychology is extremely tightly-wound. You have to be careful of people like that.
I learned a while ago that there is no point in discussing Alt-Right-type topics with any non-white, and no point in talking about it with the fanatical white Lefties. You can talk to normies if you are careful how you approach it.
To be honest there’s not much point in talking about it with women, because I have a feeling this civilizational tension is not going to be resolved at the ballot box, where women make a big difference, but on the battlefield, where they don’t. Our women will follow us, and they want to follow us. It’s the moderate, convincible white men whose opinions we have to change.
are you somehow going to be able pull all that off without taking out any Jew loans? self-financing your ethnostate, I suppose?
you’ll make zero compromises on ANY WN principles, even if it means your people suffer?
think it through. sooner or later WNs are going to have to deal with the nuts and bolts of running their own societies. and I suspect you’ll very quickly realize that you want more power and resources, and that means making some compromises on your purity pledges.
Those are fair questions.
Human societies are complex to the level that they can’t be prescribed.
The Founding Fathers did their best, and they knew it was bound to fail.
There was a blogger called [something] who was a sort of real world genius with a work history in systems theory at MIT etc. He wrote a lot about how the nature of complex problems is that they can’t be solved.
And corollary to that, is how a lot of people misunderstand that basic condition, and go around looking for the solution, when there isn’t one.
To borrow the metaphor from Sopranos, you steer the ship the best you can and that’s all you can do.
Related to this underlying condition, of human societies being too complex to solve, and but stupid liberals wanting a solution in spite of that — is the meme from the Obama years of “the smartest man in the room” and the implication that it was Obama.
People who are really smart know that they have to work in teams, and even then they are only hacking away at the problem.
But that meme i suppose goes back the “the best and the brightest” and is a result of the problem (or the predicament) of Scale. The seemingly insoluble problems that we have, overwhelming our evolved approach to things, and wanting some team of super smart people to figure it out.
The whole force versus fraud thing, is the dilemma.
And that dichotomy corresponds to the individual versus the group.
The individual may be as Excellent as Odysseus, but what chance does he stand versus an entire troop of baboons?
Bowery says that the System is based on “fraud”, where quotes are necessary because it’s not even actually the legal definition of fraud because it doesn’t include the crucial detail that it is committed knowingly.
Is it even necessarily fraud, if its goals are self evident and self perpetuating?
The White man is Alexander the Great cutting the Gordian Know with his sword.
On what level is Group Selection going to play out?
That is the question in a nutshell of these our times.
Eddie Boy Wilson emphasizes his point very well, that the fundamental premise and contradiction of the human condition, is that our genetic selection is playing out at two levels simultaneously. The group level and the individual level.
This idea is fairly intuitive and not difficult to grasp. On its surface. But its convoluted fractal forms are subtle to the point that we can only begin to see it.
In any case I think it is accepted as real science, though what would I know.
But more to the point — it is a very good frame with which to consider and discuss the whole topic.
At what level are we going to select ourselves for posterity.
If it’s at the level of Infinity Nigger, then I’m goin down the River to look for worms and see ya there.
This is off topic, but I would like to copy this comment to this thread and not somewhere else, for the sake of visibility.
On a current CH thread about White women fucking bindis, my comment is as follows:
White societies that have allowed themselves to be made into more comfortable places for the jews to live and thrive, in other words, to be turned into the jewish extended phenotype — do their children no favors on the individual level.
Look it up. Iceland proposes a ban on circumcision.
News outlets lead off with “Jewish and Muslim groups outraged.”
This is leftism. A small volcanic island seeks to be inhospitable to parasites. To a certain kind of nonWhite (I still hesitate to say “all”), the existence of a White person is a repudiation. Biological Envy, I had a post about that.
Unless all that “outrage” is a bluff. Maybe they’ll all shut up and fuck off when Iceland says “access to White people is not a human right.”
— I learned a while ago that there is no point in discussing Alt-Right-type topics with any non-white, and no point in talking about it with the fanatical white Lefties.
I agree with this. Nothing can possibly be gained by “debating” them.
The highest standard is objective (S)upremacy…
(P)erfection.
White men inclined to the highest standard are white (S)upremacists desirous of (P)erfection.
This is a branding issue, most certainly, but clearly not in the manner that “plumpjack” suggests.
“Break even” business is theoretically perpetual.
Credit where credit is due is not subject to autophagous degeneracy.
The “white (s)upremacists” of our enemies’ fevered imaginations are PROJECTIONS in WHITE drag. Literal transformers. The anti-brand. The self-annihilating parasites that each and everyone be their own cell.
Which goes to Elk’s point that “we” are assimilating to the jew-nigger phenotype WHICH MEMES “we” are SUBMISSIVE to the degenerate projections of “white (s)upremacy…” Subjects of DE-(C)apitalization where credit is where it IS NOT DUE. And lethally intoxicated with “exponential growth” such that any hint of perpetuation will always succumb to malignant cancer.
White Nationalism is a GIVEN.
The states of wn are directly an outgrowth of white (S)upremacy. Or else, “it” is General Entropy all about.
The highest IQ of the alt-rite are General Entropists…
In other words…
Anti-white (S)upremacists.
This is the branding issue.
Alt-rite are the most wily of anti-white (S)upremacists.
Per inverted reality.
So, in short, this is an internecine war taking place on what is increasingly becoming alien soil.
So “we” can peep the mechanisms.
When high IQ “whites” war by “any means necessary,” real and virtual territory is lost to an alien conqueror.
When high IQ alt-rite “whites” war by “any memes necessary,” is any territory gained?
This should be the movement’s underlying metric.
Where exactly are the positions of the high IQ white adversaries in this internecine war staged entirely on alien “ground?”
The #1 priority of the alt-right should be continuing to discredit and dismantle progtardery.
White nationalism is a failed strategy. We tried it and it failed because leftist whites tore it apart. The seeds of the decline were there long before Jews showed up. If you want to win, you need an anti-“white leftist” strategy. Most of the bad whites are of Germanic and Nordic extraction (they show up in all the kookiest places such as the West Coast wacko cities and Upper Midwest commie territory), plus the godless descendants of the Puritans (New England). Hence the stupidity of Nazi larping and paganism. The good whites are mostly Scots-Irish and Anglos. If you want to have some ethnic nationalism, you can’t stop at deporting non-whites, you have to remove all the bad whites too.
White nationalism IS NOT a “strategy” or a “movement” or even a “way” or “manner.”
White nations ARE A GIVEN.
That badwhites show up in droves at “movement rallies” is neither here nor there. Simply affirmation that white nations are a given. Badwhites no more discredit white nations than a turd discredits its azzhole. Because, shit, is our azzhole, And “we” will shit out any turd WE choose. Who is “we?” Must be assholes.
Jew you get what I meme?
…A Jewish loafer strayed too far,
rendering fooseball too tarry.
He smashed a nigger’s Cars,
And his tail hid beneath ants
..In a Hurry !!
There is no way around the logic of a Master Race. Satanicly, a “(m)aster race” usurps the Master Race by thoroughly discounting the latter in the minds of the former. The former groomed formally in murderous pedophilia. Ergo, there can be no loving (F)ather and no race of man able to see His light.
Satanic Mechanics 101.
“…Mechanics 101…”
Nancarrow attended an opera.
His tenor was far too shrill.
Nantes got buried in shop-talk,
her undies fine print read : kill..
These kinds of comments have always puzzled me. Isn’t CH a white nationalist? Aren’t most of the people in this online milieu WN?
I was under the impression that WN was essentially any movement of whites to assert an ethnic identity at this point. The terms are very confusing and I’d appreciate any clarification as to what PJ means by WN. My understating is that CH, VD. PA, AR, are all part of the WN movement.
There’s some subtlety I’m missing.
— I was under the impression that WN was essentially any movement of whites to assert an ethnic identity at this point.
That’s also how I look at it.
People hear different things when they hear White Nationalism. The objections to it on the AltRight are aimed at two kinds of people:
– Internet WNs who talk big but don’t do shit, especially if they use what’s seen as outmoded or counterproductive rhetoric
– Those who advocate a pan-racial White political identity that is designed to eventually do away with individual White national and cultural identities.
In “An American Nationalist Visits Warsaw” I analyze the different layers of identity among Whites, and the dynamic of our rivalries and solidarity.
Something I embrace, and I think most AltRighters do, is the common-sense idea that Whites are a distinct race and in that regard, there are things we have in common with each other and not with the rest of the world. This entails common interests and moral obligations to each other.
Interesting thoughts.
Ah that clears it up a good bit. Thanks.
A “pan-white” ideology is what Richard Spencer advocates, correct? Omninationalism, of the VD variety, is much more substantive.
You have to be able to evaluate a white based on his ideas on race, women, class, jews, immigration, libertarianism, HBD, and so on.
That will show you where a WN lies and what his level is.
race: There is a Master Race because “universal equality” is false.
women: what’s ours is ours; what’s theirs is the other.
class: one must possess “it” at every level.
jews: archetype anti-(S)upremacist.
immigration: As “we” see fit…ness.
libertarianism: proto alt-rite.
HBD: Have Been Duped. Free-willed men shape selective environments.
Look it up. Iceland proposes a ban on circumcision.
News outlets lead off with “Jewish and Muslim groups outraged.”
The headline we need next is ‘Middle Eastern agitators and troublemakers deported from Iceland’.
which means we’re going have to be accountable and get along with people
Terrible advice. Who are you accountable to, more precisely? Your mortal enemies.
The rest of that paragraph is basically exhorting us to put on a bowtie and join Kevin Williams. Sorry, no.
I hope you and Jay in DC understand you will be called Nazis too if you stick up your heads.
Or perhaps to get the dominoes falling it’s sufficient to ask: Who owns public opinion?
Groan … the Banker-Jews are sitting on the savings of White people, in case you wonder. Furthermore, the banking business is severely bloated because of its current role as a global casino. It could be restructured quite severely without loss of functionality.
As to all the hard hitting questions about social services, golly gee they were all of them, every fucking one, originally implemented in white ethnostates. No reason to think it couldn’t be done again. And in fact by cleaning out the bloodsuckers and parasites who are just net drains from cradle to grave, running them will be cheaper than one might expect.
OK, I think that’s enough attention to this topic.
Here’s my advice to you and Jay in DC and your friends: Stop talking about alt-right or civic nationalism or nice rightwing clubs and instead do a quiet long march through the institutions. Subterfuge the hell out of the leftists and destroy them. Godspeed, and I mean it.
I hope you and Jay in DC understand you will be called Nazis too if you stick up your heads.
Jared Taylor, the eminently reasonable man he is, constantly asserts that he is not a white nationalist; rather he defines his position as “white advocacy”, which is the shocking idea that whites may, in fact, have collective interests just like the blacks, hispanics, asians or jews. But just merely staking out that position of being pro-white, is enough to get you labelled by the mainstream media as a “white nationalist” or “white supremacist”, both labels that Taylor rejects in every interview with MSM. In fact, a recent article in the WSJ reporting on AmRen’s lawsuit against Twitter for censorship, the journalist labelled Taylor as a WN in the first sentence. Now could you imagine, media fabricating similar claims about any other ethnic group? Like labelling every member of the ADL as a zionist?
This memeplex we are laboring under, it is so unprecedented, so odd, so unnatural, it is difficult to reckon the damage it has done to us as a people and where to start clawing our way out of it.
Mitt Romney is basically Hitler, right?
That cuts through the fog.
Important, good-faith points were raised in the original post and in all of the comments. I always appreciate Plumpjack’s comments at CH.
The AltRight doesn’t debate with liberals or nonWhites. The above thread is an example of a proper debate.
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