The Cycles of Popular Music

Nikcrit, who knows a thing or two about the music industry, reflects:

[W]e came up with and take for meta-granted pop music as some ineffable combination of bass, drums, keyboard and guitars, etc.; but that is not true anymore; to some of the kids i see on a daily basis, when speaking of those modern-rock staples of sound, I might as well be talking about lyres and flutes!

No, today it’s all about post-production in distinguishing ‘your sound,’ your ‘song.’ As for the instruments, the field of interaction there has gone far beyond strings and animal-skin produced beats, with sampling allowing any ‘sampled’ noise to moderated to pitch, key and tempo. It’s very alienating to older generations; i wouldn’t know how to properly criticize such music because there’s yet to develop a critically verbal vocabulary to capture all the pop-zeitgeist production tools of the 21st-century.

My shamelessly amateur theory on mainstream music is that its prevailing styles run in cycles, pulled between these roughly analogous to each other pairs of opposite ideals:

Masculine vs. Feminine
Gruff vs. Glam
Stage vs. Studio
Contemplative vs. Danceable
Guitar vs. Synth
Warrior vs. Lover
Sincerity vs. Artifice
Raw vs. Polished

This tension between sensibilities can exist within a single period — like Led Zeppelin and Bee Gees, Rush and Michael Jackson, John Mellencamp and Madonna, Metallica and Pet Shop Boys, Guns N’ Roses and Mariah Carey, Nirvana and Backstreet Boys — or one expression of the same larger genre can displace the other overnight, such as when the new Seattle sound torpedoed the careers of glam rockers.

However, an argument can be made that this cyclical model of alternating styles is now obsolete due to the demographic and technology-driven fragmentation of today’s mass audience into fan niches. There is a point to be made there, as audience fragmentation is self-evident, but I don’t fully accept it because as long as there is any shared public space, there will by necessity be a Top 40 consensus. Such a consensus, be it organic or manufactured, is reflected in the type of music you hear wherever a broad cross-section of people goes, and where the musical offering is contemporary rather than nostalgia-driven: D.J.’d events, school dances, sports games, national chain gyms, bowling alleys, bars, and so on.

Putting aside the matter of whether or not I like today’s Top 40 sound — which skews heavily in favor of the right side of my pairings: feminine, glam, synth, etc. and aims in the direction of what Nickrit describes — my question is: will it go on forever? Is today’s studio-centric hegemony a build-up to a hairpin turn toward performance-driven, sweaty musicianship — a playing out of history’s many earlier revolutions in mainstream sound — or is Nikcrit’s snapshot, with apologies to Fukuyama, the end of music?

Here is a short argument in support of a coming change:

A teenager listens to popular music for self-idealization at the point in his life when he is wrestling with his social identity and sexual destiny, sometimes an exhilarating but more often a bewildering time. It’s not vanity; it’s a fumbling for light in the darkness. While the pop song’s rhythm and lyrics bring relief from thought when reflection is difficult, the mental image of the performer in the throes of pathos form an idol in the teen’s mind, giving shape to an avatar through which he approaches his aspirations and fears. And I contend that for this idol to bring catharsis, there has to be a visual element of physical performance tied to the song.

Now back to the brave new world of synthetic music. It offers a number of things that teenager responds to — new sound combinations, beat, clever lyrics. Girls like it. But music whose production tools are more abstract than animal lacks the credible physicality of the performance itself. And this is why contemporary popular music, though we can’t see this at the moment, strains against the bonds of the industry’s inertia to snap back to its performance-based renaissance. For all of the mass appeal of one entrenched style, hunger for its opposite grows quietly until we vomit that, on which we’ve gorged too long.

***

Completely out of the left field: what happens when electricity goes out?

I was once at a pub in Vilnius and there was a birthday party in a reserved room off to one side. One of the adults was playing lively songs on an acoustic guitar and singing to the cacophony of delight from the kids who were jumping and dancing in circles. The music was very catchy, like a medley of traditional children’s songs and folk ballads.

If there is no more electricity then it’s back to, and I like that synecdoche: strings and animal skins. An extended power outage would be a wonderful thing for everyday musicians. Anyone who can carry a tune, or knows some basic chords and scales and has a feel for rhythm can step forward as a poet and a bard.

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232 thoughts on “The Cycles of Popular Music

  1. I prefer the rock, metal, post-punk, and New Wave bands of the 1970s-early 1980s.

    The sound of popular music began to change in the mid-1980s with MIDI and the digitalization of the production process.

    In the late 1980s, black music like rap and r&b became more mainstream. Goys my own age started listening to Run DMC, Ton Loc, and Bobby Brown. At about the same time, The Simpsons cartoon series appeared on tv.

    For me, this was the beginning of the end.

    As a fan of synthesizers and electronic music, I well remember the American music press decrying the ‘fake, soul-less’ electronic sounds of British New Wave bands and synth-pop groups.

    Curiously, this was never a criticism extended to the contrived, elaborately produced rap and r&b pieces coming out of the black music industry, pieces that were almost exclusively electronic sounds.

  2. This goes beyond popular music. I think the composer Steve Reich has (or is) writing music explicitly intended to sound like “machines.” The logical conclusion of what I will call ‘Synth City.’ Rather than signify the end of music as such, Synth City is effectively acting as a clear-cut tool and springboard to more definitively leap into/clarify the raw rather than merely polished — the pair in your list that struck me as most apt and catch-all. Not the only tool for such a quest, but a useful one. Lights out for a while would no doubt be a beautiful thing for all the arts. Especially the plastic arts and their sui generis allotment.

    Our current music reflects the larger trend of personal agency being relinquished to the stale, pseudo myth of e-life. A kind of festival of diminishing self-reliance. It won’t and can’t last. The soul will eventually melt and weld the robots into strange xylophones and pianos unheard of. For a hint of what is happening in the shadows, I recommend grabbing a Mark Deutsch album. He made an instrument called the bazantar that is incredible.

  3. At Hakkasan in Las Vegas you have DJ’s like Calvin Harris or Tiesto doing a 3-night weekend gig and making 250K. And that Pauly guy from Jersey shore is also a famous DJ and making an insane amount of money to go to music venues and “perform” (aka talk on a microphone over other people’s records) Pretty shockening that the younger generation is ok paying these people these insane amounts just to spin records on a turntable.

  4. and where the musical offering is contemporary rather than nostalgia-driven: D.J.’d events, school dances, sports games, national chain gyms, bowling alleys, bars, and so on.

    In the office, sometimes some of the younger Millennial analysts will put on some music at their desk. It’s invariably a mix of top 40s crap, black music, faggot music like Coldplay. A couple of older goys have started telling them to put on some classic (White) rock from the ’70s and ’80s, They younger ones are blown away. They just don’t hear this kind of music anymore.

  5. That new Coldplay song with Beyonce is supremely annoying, I’ve never heard of a straight white guy liking their music.

  6. “An extended power outage would be a wonderful thing for everyday musicians. Anyone who can carry a tune, or knows some basic chords and scales and has a feel for rhythm can step forward as a poet and a bard.”

    Yes, I agree and am charmed by that scenario as well; some of my finest musicianship moments have been generated from such’impromptu-acoustic’ occasions —– one of those instances literally the result of a power outtage, with candles and acoustic guitars, the whole bit.

    The sound of popular music began to change in the mid-1980s with MIDI and the digitalization of the production process.

    Yes. Very much so. That’s a more specific chronology of the point I was making about the course of pop in recent history.

    In terms of that “MIDI-ization,” you might call it, the symbolic iconic indicator in my pop mythology is that Van Halen song, “Jump,” which features that horribly cheesy computerized keyboard sound that was all the rage in the early-to-mid ’80s and was the apotheosis of that MIDI sound LBF alluded to. I mean, here was a band who epitomized that ‘strings and skins’ era we discussed suddenly incorporating its antithesis into its sound. And it’s probably not coincidental that “Jump” may have been VH’s biggest hit single.

    O.T. pop declartion: Coldplay is the most insufferable big band to come about in decades IMHO. One-trick pony band; what would they do to death without those few minor-key chord pop progressions?

  7. I grew up idolizing Jim Morrison and Franz Liszt. You’re right about early idols playing a huge role in the formation of social identity and sexual destiny.

  8. “As a fan of synthesizers and electronic music, I well remember the American music press decrying the ‘fake, soul-less’ electronic sounds of British New Wave bands and synth-pop groups…..Curiously, this was never a criticism extended to the contrived, elaborately produced rap and r&b pieces coming out of the black music industry,…..”

    Y’know, when you talk to or interview any of those black rap figures from east coast in the mid-to-late 70s, the progenitors of rap and hip-hop; i.e., Afrikka Bambaata, Kurtis Blow, Grandmaster Flash, etc. —— black rappers who are not hip to racial politics and cant and do not twist their casual rhetoric accordingly? When you ask them who was their biggest musical influence, or overall influence in their developing this new genre called rap, they ALL cite Kraftwerk, which of course is the whitest and most Germanic and pre-programmed music in history. Half those late 70s rap tunes coming out of the Bronx and Brooklyn were slightly re-mixed Kraftwerk samples?

    It’s really hilarious when you step back and reprocess a few of the hard-myth pop ‘givens.’

  9. Half those late 70s rap tunes coming out of the Bronx and Brooklyn were slightly re-mixed Kraftwerk samples?

    Rap also had a huge influence from the Jamaican practice of having a DJ set up a popular new musical track and then having different people jump up on the microphone and rhyme/sing (rap) over it. Rapper’s Delight is an example of this – it uses a popular, sampled backing track that has some added instruments and other content added to the mix.

  10. “Our current music reflects the larger trend of personal agency being relinquished to the stale, pseudo myth of e-life. A kind of festival of diminishing self-reliance. It won’t and can’t last.”

    I hope you’re right —- but I’m not as confident as you.

    See, I agree with your point and have made very similar overall assessments of ‘the contemporary scene.”

    But what I’m thinking you perhaps are overlooking is this: What about the sense of ‘glut’ that’s being inculcated by all this overabundance of ‘e-life’ artistic production? I fear its effect lingers and recalibrates many other x-factors down the line.

    I hope I’m wrong and you’re right, but by my lights that is the real issue to reckon with in the near future.

  11. Pingback: The Cycles of Popular Music | Reaction Times

  12. I’ve always been a fan of what is now dubbed as 70s AM Gold, 80s pop, synth, rock, and of course, good old fashioned classic rock.

    I have found memories of a few summers, building stuff in the garage with my pop, and he’d have on the oldies station–it’d occasionally play a good mix of 50s and 60s, but classic rock as well.

    I remember vividly as Free Bird came on and he said, “oh, I’ve been waiting for this one” and raised up the volume some more.

    And PA, as soon as I started high school, that’s when I was more aware of what music meant to me since I was, as you stated, seeking light in the darkness. That’s when Pearl Jam’s Ten had just hit and well, we all know how rock solid Black is.

    I’m such an autist at time and I recall having received a walkman for Christmas during my freshman year, and though I had had one before and knew of them, at that moment I thought that being able to listen to music on the go–especially radio–was the greatest thing ever.

    And, before iPod’s were out or ubiquitous, I’d be out with my Sony Discman and then later, the short-lived MiniDisc–that thing was solid; could record your own mixed tapes, so to speak, and it would never skip. Crystal clear audio. And I always wore over-the-ear headphones.

  13. sometimes some of the younger Millennial analysts will put on some music at their desk. It’s invariably a mix of top 40s crap, black music, faggot music like Coldplay. 

    Yes, this has astounded me for as long as I can remember, and continues to: that seemingly normal-on-the-surface young dudes will put such fucking GAY music, and think it’s “okay” to listen to this. It’s not merely a question of generational tastes.‎

    Something I truly look forward to with relish is introducing my son to metal.

    about early idols playing a huge role in the formation of social identity and sexual destiny.

    Couldn’t agree more. I grew up with very strict blue-pill views in a lot of ways, and probably the chief thing that succoured my adult SMV was my teenage idolization of rock n’ roll badasses. ‎When in doubt, just act like Axl. (Or Slash, who’s on record as saying, “It’s amazing how much shit women will put up with…”)

  14. sometimes some of the younger Millennial analysts will put on some music at their desk. It’s invariably a mix of top 40s crap, black music, faggot music like Coldplay. ‎

    I think we all hate Coldplay here, but in their defense they actually play instruments.

    The absolute worst trend in popular music now has to be teenybopper actors/models who are later propped up by a host of marketers, PR analysts, producers, and ghost writers via huge record company $$ investment and turned into music “stars” that are regarded as legitimate artists by the younger generation. Their own arrogance and self-assuredness that they are legit musicians is absolutely sickening.

    Brittany Spears started that, but now we’ve got Zayn Malik, Selena Gomez, etc. Anyone you see on the cover of teen magazine now as a “child star” will be a manfactured singer sure enough by age 15. Brittney’s voice already has that “false baritone” kinda sound to it that tries to make her seem sultry (I don’t know the correct term for that) Her singing without electronic help is dreadful:

    BRITNEY SPEARS LIVE

  15. I was going to say something, then I decided to check on the current Top 40. I have not heard a single one of these songs, and probably never heard of half the artists listed. So I concluded I probably have nothing to say on this topic any longer. Curious how many of you know any of these songs?

    http://www.billboard.com/charts/hot-100

    I think technology is a big part of the atomization of music. I never listen to the radio. And I rarely listen to anything that isn’t un-currated (mostly by myself, my own play lists) or un-categorized (like a 70s station). Now and then I pick up on a current band — e.g. Wussy or The Mountain Goats — but they are traditional sounding bands. Mostly when I stumble across some current pop hit it repulses me almost instantly.

    For kicks I tried listening to the current #1, and it sounds like a thousand other songs that you hear playing in Las Vegas casinos or anywhere you are forcibly exposed to contempo music. Then I listened to the #2 song, and it was the same song with a different singer. The #3 song made me queasy (the most nauseating kind of R&B) and then I stopped this dreadful experiment.

    Random side note: lately I have very much enjoyed listening to The Ink Spots (oh, what a racist name!)

  16. “lately I have very much enjoyed listening to The Ink Spots”

    That blows me away, ‘cuz lately i’ve been doing the same for many white and black all-vocal groups from that era. Also been pulling up oldies from the Treniers, who’ve been accorded by some to be “the first ever’ rock-n-roll band (fwiw, i do not concur and claim that is a multi-band attribution).

    INK SPOTS – IF I DIDNT CARE

    FWIW2: One of the original Ink Spots lived in Brewtown, though i don’t know if he’s still living,

  17. I have not heard anything in that top 40, or if I did, I probably wouldn’t know it. I surf from stationi to station when nothing good’s on, and maybe I heard one of these songs if it caught my ear, but doesn’t look that way.

    And egads, roughly half, if not more, are “featuring someone”. When did this become the norm?

    It’d be like if Money for Nothing was listed as Dire Straits, featuring Sting

  18. technology is a big part of the atomization of music

    I lament that, as someone alluded to recently, you don’t really “get into” a whole album anymore.

    I’ve also learned that a sign of aging is turning on the radio, thinking “hey, when did they start playing good music again?”, and realizing you’re listening to the Classic 80s station.

    I do like Twenty-One pilots’ Stressed Out, which some might call childish but I think it captures the angst of a generation that’s been f**ked.

  19. p.s.@peterike,

    Until recently, I know what you’re feeling in re. to NOT feeling anything when confronted with pop-chart zeitgeist.

    But: because of my recent career, nearly every song in that Billboard Hot 100 chart was familiar ground to this aging hipster —- in some case, very tired familiar ground, i.e., those songs by “Broccoli” and that insufferable Drake song in which he tries to be some sorta romantic rapper paramour; (btw, what do you guys here think of a half-jewish/half-black rapper suddenly dominating the rap charts and now taking over the rap industry with his own label and slew of artists? See any patterns there? 🙂 )

  20. White British Motown songwriter Rod Temperton just died, he co-wrote “Thriller” “Off the Wall” and “Rock With You”:

    http://www.ajc.com/news/national/thriller-songwriter-rod-temperton-dies/RzIHVDuFeiEfwEPy4Lg09I/

    Unfortunately, I listen to most of the current top 40 songs at the office. Everyone reporting to me is 27 years old or younger so they listen to that crap all day and I indulge them as long as they’re making the company money. As is still common with young whites down South, they will still switch to Country stations for a day or two every now and then.

  21. p.p.s—- I, however, DO think that Billboard 100 chart has a good calculus going for it in this day and age; one that somewhat transcends the ‘atomization’ factors that peterike rightly noted.
    Billboard describes its measure: This week’s most popular songs across all genres, ranked by radio airplay audience impressions as measured by Nielsen Music, sales data as compiled by Nielsen Music and streaming activity data provided by online music sources.

    That’s about as close to a realpolitik zeitgeist measure i’ve encountered in this recent day and age.

  22. You mean Drake who used to be on the Mickey Mouse Club? You mean to tell me that Hip Hoppers aren’t really the major crimelords running International drug syndicates and murdering people daily, as they claim?

  23. “And egads, roughly half, if not more, are “featuring someone”. When did this become the norm?”

    It’s combining markets and genres and racial and income demographics, to make multiples of the various niche revenue streams.

    What exactly did this become the norm?

    Hard to say, but my vote goes to that day in the late ’90s when Puff Daddy teamed up with Jimmy page to do Puff’s “Come with Me,” which musically was a note-for-note redo of “Kashmir.” The pair even played it on SNL and other major concert venues:

    JIMMY PAGE WITH PUFF DADDY

    The collaboration graced the soundtrack for the remake of “Godzilla.”

    (Each Pond Gone: starting to catch my drift when I talk about 21st-century artistic-content glut?)

  24. @PA,

    We got a bit sidetracked, deep into the techno-shift tangent or recent pop. But to answer our blog host’s SPECIFIC question, I say it’s not either/or; i.e., the recent shift in technology and manner of production re. today’s pop hits is something that covers both sides of PA’s proposed “Yin-and-then-Yang” phases of pop, with one playing off of and ‘antidote-izing’ the other.

    IOW: I think the techno-advances are here to stay —– though that male-to-female-mode pop pendulum will keep swinging in steady intervals.

  25. “And egads, roughly half, if not more, are “featuring someone”. When did this become the norm?”

    Hmmm, makes for an interesting parlor game. What would be some of your dream “featurings”?

    Blue Oyster Cult featuring Robert Plant (I love BOC, but their biggest weakness was a lousy lead singer!)

    The Beatles featuring Keith Moon

    Led Zeppelin featuring Jimi Hendrix

    Chicago featuring Louis Armstrong

    The Clash featuring Pete Townsend (a thing that could have happened!)

  26. @nikrit,

    Yes, I remember Duff Paddy’s “Come With Me” and wondering how much Page and/or Zeppelin received for licensing that song in the manner with which they did.

    And to make matters worse, Duff Paddy also sampled a track from the Rocky soundtrack, “Going the Distance” for another of his songs. As a huge Rocky fan, and even bigger fan of that score, that was just too much for me.

    I understand sampling tracks and using them to create a whole new song, but what D.Piddy did wasn’t even trying. It was just spackled together in a rush.

  27. The “Featuring so-and-so” phenomenon also has a lot to do with royalties and the ability to easily track profits via digital distribution. Since it’s easier and more guaranteed to be able to collect your money you want your name out there front and center if you contribute.

    Prior decades saw a lot more uncredited collaborations.

  28. There exists pretty much a consensus that the Treniers appearance on Dean Martin and Jerry Lewis’ variety show marked the first time rock-n-roll appeared on mainstream national television:

    THE TRENIERS ON MARTIN LEWIS

    (People forget that Martin and Lewis were as big as the Beatles in their early 50s prime)

  29. Rapper’s Delight is a fun song. There are a few good rap songs, but it is not the type of genre where there is going to be a lot of room for creativity and original content. They all kind of sound the same. Modern pop is unbelievably bad. I don’t know how Can puts up with it all day.

  30. I think the #1 song in the country is closer by the Chain Smokers right now, I’ve already heard it playing 10 times today throughout the office. I don’t hate it as much as most of the others, but even for a bubble gummy modern pop song it’s all refrain and few lyrics.

  31. My favorite bands as a late-stage teenager were Zeppelin and The Who.

    We were hanging at a friend’s (parents’) place, 10th grade was just out, and Stairway to Heaven came on in over the tape deck, and it was a revelation as if hearing it for the first time though of course it had been playing since forever.

    **********

    There is no denying that that stuff was innovative, whereas today the Top 40 is crap. Closer by the Chain Smokers? i just had a look and it sucks. So some teenage girls think he looks like Justin Bieber so he is allowed to act like a fag and sing a weak song. The last lyric before i switched it off was, sung in a weak voice,

    “We aint ever gettin older”

    which is where they are at.

    The whole Youth as an Attribute mentality, that today’s kids take to heart, comes from them not believing that they are capable of growing into someone worthy of respect.

    Youth is always an attribute, to be admired rather than despised resented envied or condemned — but now and today it is all there is … or so the kids would think.

  32. The whole Youth as an Attribute mentality, that today’s kids take to heart, comes from them not believing that they are capable of growing into someone worthy of respect.

    Good point. And any culture that lives by the ephemeral whimsies and vanity of the young (like today’s America) is destined to be frivolous, stupid and unsustainable.

    #2 track has got to be that stupid techno-sounding Rihanna song with Calvin Harris, but do yourself a favor and doesn’t listen to that one. I’ve heard it at least 10 times today.

  33. Youth is always an attribute, to be admired rather than despised resented envied or condemned — but now and today it is all there is … or so the kids would think.

    Actually, youth is usually regarded with great scorn and suspicion by any society that is worthy anything. Before this last century in the West youth would’ve almost been embarrassed to speak in public before proving their value and quality.

  34. The last lyric before i switched it off was, sung in a weak voice,
    “We aint ever gettin older”

    Compare to The Who’s “hope I die before I get old.”

    The first is a limp-wristed fantasy. The second a shout of (misplaced) conviction that acknowledges death and scorns it. Somewhere between “hope I die” and “I won’t ever die” we lost our civilization.

  35. @nikcrit

    FWIW2: One of the original Ink Spots lived in Brewtown, though i don’t know if he’s still living.

    Wow, you know your music. William “Scat” Johnson died about 20 years ago. His sons, Mark and Billy” played drums and bass respectively as The Johnson Brothers. Mark currently lives in NYC. Billy recently returned to Milwaukee where he teaches and plays jazz upright bass.

    Someone–probably one of the sons–maintains a Facebook page for Scat.
    Billy’s website is https://billyjohnsonbass.wordpress.com/

  36. As a sophomore in college, I remember taking a “fluid mechanics” class in which I was literally conceptually ignorant to the phrase itself. I literally could not wrap my head around fluid MECHANICS… And ONLY BECAUSE I could not conceive “mechanics” which I DID KNOW where not ever fluid.

    Twenty years later and I realize “fluid mechanics” is a PARTICULAR MANIFESTATION of “radical autonomy.”

    ALL THINGS SEEK RADICAL AUTONONY…

    Especially the music… And its ever fluid mechanics. Ultimately, immeasurable.

  37. “Blade Runner” has the sound track of the radical autonomist…. The “man” with the “fluid mechanics.”

  38. I don’t despise, resent, or even really envy young people, I just think their lack of life experience tends to show through. Even very bright young people can say really silly things.

  39. “Blade Runner” has the sound track of the radical autonomist…. The “man” with the “fluid mechanics.”

    So that means Deckard was a replicant?

  40. Checked out “Closer” by the Chainsmokers. It may well be the worst song I’ve ever heard. Did you say it’s Country? It sure isn’t a cover of NIN.

    In fairness, every era will have its third-rate songs that enjoy brief popularity and then fade from memory — all the while not unjustly drawing contempt from an older generation. I remember in 1983 an adult reacted to Quiet Riot “Come On Feel The Noize” with “this is horrible, it’s just screaming!” The song didn’t define the 80s, but it was of it.

    Any good Top 40 songs? No idea. “Come a Little Closer” by Cage the Elephant, if it counts as mainstream and not alt-rock niche, is pretty good. It’s a few years old though.

  41. No, man, the Brothers Johnson, not the Johnson Brothers. The Brothers Johnson did Strawberry Letter 23.

    VIDEO

    This is Scat Johnson with his sons, later known as The Johnson Brothers.

    VIDEO

  42. I meant, “No, man, THAT’S the Brothers Johnson, not the Johnson Brothers. The Brothers Johnson ALSO did Strawberry Letter 23.”

  43. Most of the greatest K-pop anthems are produced by native talent, but some agencies and groups will occasionally or even ubiquitously use imported material from Europe, particularly the Swedish outfit that produced this song for Oh My Girl:

    VIDEO

    with the Scandinavian composition/production, Korean performance and choreography, and the LCD backdrop featuring a stylized St. Basil’s, I sometimes playfully think of this stage as “John Derbyshire’s wet dream.” lozll Springtime for the Ice Alliance, baby!

    thordaddy writes: “Blade Runner” has the sound track of the radical autonomist…. The “man” with the “fluid mechanics.”

    thor’s making an interesting riff, because as soon as he brought up fluid mechanics I instantly thought of that French poststructuralist chick– but which one of them was it?–who famously went on that tear about how the Physics profession was repressing fluid mechanics because of phallocentrism? lolz

    I think he’s slyly suggesting material for another post: riffing on film scores as omens of the times. His “Blade Runner” remark suddenly brought to mind Dario Argento’s very lurid, very violent psychological thriller “Tenebre”, which I haven’t watched in years but has always held a special fascination for me, and it just occurred to me that the best point of comparison is not to Hitchcock’s “Vertigo” but Lynch’s “Mulholland Drive”: all three feature a narrative drift by which the film winds up in a place almost geologically remote from where it began, but like Lynch’s film, the Argento is so eerily “off” in tone from the beginning, it’s practically begun in a terrifying dream world from which it never awakens..

    Argento’s film features a hammeringly decadent, sort of proto-Daft Punk Eurodisco soundtrack– a kind of Disco of Death (watch it if you don’t believe me). And a crucial piece of trivia relating to the film is that Argento insists, ex cathedra, that the film takes place in a depopulated post-apocalyptic near future. Nothing intrinsic to the film “text” betokens this, and usually I poo-poo these kinds of authorial intrusions into the already-born material, but I take Argento seriously on this one. It’s not a film to all tastes– many would find its decadence appalling and sensationalistic– but its psychological insights are so disturbing, its tone so full of “postmodern” dread, that in a way too it’s like Muriel Spark’s suffocatingly nightmarish novel “The Driver’s Seat”, also concerned with lunacy and a death wish on Italian holiday. That terrifying dream world is–“Western” modernity.

  44. Fun fact: “Strawberry Letter 23” was written by a young Shuggie Otis, the quadroon son of R&B legend Johnny Otis. Shuggie is also known for turning down an offer to join the Rolling Stones in the 1970s.

    Shuggie’s version of “Strawberry Letter 23” can be found on his solo album Inspiration Information. It’s more spartan than the Brothers Johnson version, which was produced by Quincy Jones.

    Also, Drake is related to Willie Mitchell, one of the architects of the Memphis Sound.

  45. I’m sure there’s enough Sailer fans here to remember one of his refrains that the physical environment we are in at adolescence imprints upon us.

    I have the same opinion about music. As kids, whatever stuff our parents may incessantly play is going to imprint upon us.

    Case in point: as much as I protested at the time, today I love, love, love late 60’s, 70’s & early 80’s country music.

    I also take it as one of my important parental duties to imprint good musical taste on my kids, which is to say, the aforementioned country music, plus rock & roll of same era, plus the occasional foray into the early to mid 90’s Seattle scene.

    Gotta give props to Pandora for making this all a trivial undertaking.

  46. “…Lynch’s “Mulholland Drive”’…

    Blue Velvet basically retired the cinema in my eyes. It was made before I was born. Unparalleled. His later ‘Lost Highway,’ ‘Mul. Drive,’ and even ‘Rabbits’ seem feigned in a way that suggests – in essence – he enjoys the cage he lives in, and assumes the audience does as well. I like Vertigo for the soundtrack. Hitchcock’s eventual falling out with Bernard Hermann was a shame for both.

  47. Strawberry Letter 23 is a solid jam. I was aware of it since it was in the film Jackie Brown, which is I think is a better film than Pulp Fiction

    And Jackie Brown has a solid soundtrack. Good tunes on there.

  48. Blue Velvet basically retired the cinema in my eyes. It was made before I was born. Unparalleled.

    Yes, that was Lynch’s apex on the big screen —— but I still maintain that Twin Peaks was superior to his films, and not conincidentally, a better format for a talent like Lynch (Overall, I think the ‘cable-series’ season, usually 12 48-minute episodes, is a better way to express a concept story than one long film).

    Lost Highway was a perfect storm of creative peaking; Lynch’s lost opp was “Dune”; a bit too much too early for his talent. He didn’t know what to do with all that sudden budget and editorial clout. I have a friend who worked some tech role on the Twin Peaks pilot; we saw
    it before the public; masterpiece IMO.

    http://www.esquire.com/entertainment/tv/a23501/twin-peaks-things-you-wanted-to-know/

  49. “Strawberry Letter 23 is a solid jam.”

    Brothers Johnson did Strawberry Letter and I’ll Be Good To You…. Are you saying that those bros aren’t related to the guy in the Ink Spots? I thought i recalled a milwaukee connection among those three (bros johnson and the elder Ink Spot); I also recall brothers Johnson being two of Quincy Jones’ choice studio hires. That’s going back quite a bit there.

  50. “Y’all might have to drop the “NA’ from typical “NAM” behavior and party affiliation”

    This is nothing new. Asians, being natural parasites and natural copiers, have an unfailing ability to know which way the wind blows. They know that as long as Dems and GOPe are in power, nobody is going to question why Granny Chang is on Soc Sec disability, even though she never paid a penny into the system (and she is, she is). Nobody will ever question government set asides for “minority” contracts (lol!). Nobody will ever go after their gang of relatives who are overstaying visas (Indians are especially good at that ) or just here illegally from the get go. Nobody will ever seriously attack Medicare/Medicaid fraud, at which they make millions (billions?), beyond a token arrest here and there. Nobody will ever crack down on Dr. Feelgoods dispensing pills like skittles, and many a Dr. Feelgood is Asian. On and on it goes, the low-trust parasites sucking the blood of the (still) high-trust white host nation.

    The Dem/GOPe axis works very well for Asians. And since the Dems are the driving force and the GOPe merely the willfully blind, of course its better to go with the Dems. But if Trump truly shifts the cultural/political winds, you can bet the Asians will climb on board. They are exceptionally good at sucking up (followed by stabbing in the back).

  51. “Asians, being …..natural copiers,”

    Yeah, I sense a real hyper-assimilative quality to certain Asian cultures; the way they assess a new culture and people, see who’s on top and in charge, and then imitate and kowtow to that class until they attain something similar.

    Having said that, I don’t have a large sample-size to observe, though I do when and while i was in Chicago.

  52. If you liked Bernard Hermann’s OST for Vertigo then you will also like Henry Mancini’s OST for Experiment in Terror. Another movie set in San Francisco that influenced David Lynch and is a personal favorite of Mike Patton.

    nikcrit, go back and read my post about Shuggie Otis. ‘Strawberry Letter 23″ is Los Angeles all day long. Shuggie’s father Johnny Otis is from Vallejo here in the North Bay which is also where Sly Stone got his start.

  53. “Brian Eno predicted the modern state of music almost 40 years ago:”

    That Eno piece became a real manifesto for modern-studies nerds worldwide; it was basically an update to the Adorno treatise against jazz and the supposed degradations of mass recorded music.

    It’s true that, with the development of recording at the start of the 20th-century, for a quite long interm, recording=reproducing; i.e., it was not considered an art form ‘IN AND OF ITSELF’ in terms of influencing your actual composition…… I would argue that the innovation of ‘tracking’ was what made recording part of the creative auteur process, etc., blah-blah, nerdy woof-woof.

  54. Lothar,
    I knew a bit about Shuggie; I recall doing a short blurb CD review of his that came out in the early 2000s, apparently it was a never-released or very limited-release of a album he did in the mid-to-late 70s.

    I understand that he was supposed to be the Prince of his time, until things went wrong and the real Prince came about, no?

    I did a cursory listening back then and wasn’t moved hard either way.

  55. nikcrit,

    That was Inspiration Information, which was reissued by David Byrne in 2001. It’s a fantastic album; along with Sly Stone’s There’s a Riot Goin’ On, it’s one of the first to feature an analog drum machine.

    It’s true that Shuggie is considered to be a great loss of potential in terms of him being a musical prodigy of the late 60s and early 70s. He wrote “Strawberry Letter 23” when he was only 19. Apparently he had massive substance abuse issues.

    His song “Aht Uh Mi Head” off of Inspiration Information is a lost classic.

  56. “…the Adorno treatise against jazz and the supposed degradations of mass recorded music.”

    If Adorno was brought up in America, he’d display some kind of fealty toward jazz. How can one deny an Art Tatum through and through? He did produce a book that is exclusively about Beethoven’s music. It’s a work of genius and sort kind of music in itself. All that Frankfort School horseshit doesn’t apply to him. He was reeling in a giant catch that’s yet to be determined.

  57. the way they assess a new culture and people, see who’s on top and in charge, and then imitate and kowtow to that class until they attain something similar.

    I’ve noticed this as well. Especially those first, second generations born here. They adopt their identity from whatever’s popular and en vogue at the time. It’s sad, because it’s almost as if they don’t have their own identity and shun their own culture, while still, in some ways clinging to that culture.

    I’m guess some of that has to do with parental pressure, so it could be a way of rebelling against that.

  58. Speakin of dah funk! for any Spotify listeners out there, look up the album “70’s Soul Number 1’s.” It’s full of good stuff from back when black music didn’t suck.

  59. As far as non-vocal music goes, I like Jamaican Dub music a lot. (NOT the same as that awful dub-step crap, which is a much later bastar*dized derivative)

    King Tubby and Sly & Robbie are some of the early pioneers.

  60. One of my favorite Jamaican dub artists is Scientist, who I believe was a protege of King Tubby (RIP).

    Scientist released a number of themed dub albums, such as Halloween, world cup, and 1980s video arcade machine themes.

    If you have ever played electric guitar, then you know how much fun it is to play around with the reverb spring in amplifiers. The dub guys are masters at that.

  61. . Nobody will ever seriously attack Medicare/Medicaid fraud, at which they make millions (billions?), beyond a token arrest here and there. Nobody will ever crack down on Dr. Feelgoods dispensing pills like skittles, and many a Dr. Feelgood is Asian. On and on it goes, the low-trust parasites sucking the blood of the (still) high-trust white host nation.

    I’m quite surprised you are tuned into this dirty little secret. Ann Coulter dedicated an entire chapter in Adios America to the shocking sums Medicare fraud carried out by the Ramachamadingdongs, but I’ve otherwise heard no mention of it in the MSM or alt-right. A lot of these foreign medical grads go to schools where corruption, cheating, nepotism, and bribery are the rule. They graduate with bachelor degrees, which upon completion of the US medical licensing exams are magically transformed into doctorate degrees in the US. A similar dynamic has been playing out in the IT industry, with hoards of low level HIB workers replacing native born and educated.

    ——
    This is a real eye-opener. Please read:

    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-india-medicine-education-specialrepor-idUSKBN0OW1NM20150617

    The system’s problems are felt abroad, too. Tens of thousands of India’s medical graduates practice overseas, particularly in the United States, Britain, Australia and Canada. All of these countries require additional training before graduates of Indian medical schools can practice, and the vast majority of the doctors have unblemished records.

    But regulatory documents show that in both Britain and Australia, more graduates of Indian medical schools lost their right to practice medicine in the past five years than did doctors from any other foreign country.

    In the United Kingdom, between 2008 and 2014, Indian-­trained doctors were four times more likely to lose their right to practice than British-­trained doctors, according to records of Britain’s General Medical Council.

  62. Brothers Johnson did Strawberry Letter and I’ll Be Good To You…. Are you saying that those bros aren’t related to the guy in the Ink Spots? I thought i recalled a milwaukee connection among those three (bros johnson and the elder Ink Spot); I also recall brothers Johnson being two of Quincy Jones’ choice studio hires. That’s going back quite a bit there.

    The Brothers Johnson did do Strawberry Letter and I’ll Be Good To You and work with Quincy Jones. The Johnson Brothers (Note the reversal of the name.) are two different guys, not related to the Brothers Johnson. The Johnson Brothers played jazz around Mke with their dad Scat, toured Europe and Asia, settled in NYC and pursued jazz careers as a brother act, with various other jazz artists and as independent musicians. Mark is still in New York. Billy lives in Mke, teaches, and still plays the occasional gig. They must be about 60 now.

    Check out the links I originally gave you. They have pictures, videos, press clippings, etc. from Scat’s career and from the boys’ later careers without Scat (the former Inkspot). Do you follow August J Ray on Facebook? He chronicles the Mke jazz scene. He occasionally mentions Billy Johnson.

  63. On and on it goes, the low-trust parasites sucking the blood of the (still) high-trust white host nation.

    How does one defend against parasitic behavior when one’s immune system is crippled? To be white is to be without a positive identity. We exist as a group in only the negative sense, we are an existential dumping ground for everyone else’s collective grievances. We are only allowed to speak of ourselves as a group in a self-flaggelating manner. For fuck’s sake to even talk about anti-white hate crimes is a borderline thought crime. How did we get to this point and how do we get out?

  64. How does one defend against parasitic behavior when one’s immune system is crippled?

    By keeping government as small as possible. Government and quasi-government organizations are far more prone to corruption than private industry. Even Denmark and Japan still have some degree of corruption – what they don’t have is a rapidly growing bureacracy that is coming under the increasing control of foreigners, liberals, trannies, anti-colonialists and other assorted fruits and nuts.

    I know it’s the tendency of the alt-right to just say “screw it, the government’s already against me” and then wax poetic on all of the right-wing violence and/or self-segregation we’d like to initiate. But it’s too early to abandon the pursue the traditional conservative political goals of liberty and limited government just yet.

  65. It’s great to see another jazz enthusiast on this blog (apologies to PA).

    mkejazzfan, how do you rate Freddie Hubbard’s CTI albums?

    Do you have a favorite from the Mizell Brothers or Roy Ayers?

    Hank Mobley or Dexter Gordon?

  66. I know it’s the tendency of the alt-right to just say “screw it, the government’s already against me” and then wax poetic on all of the right-wing violence and/or self-segregation we’d like to initiate. But it’s too early to abandon the pursue the traditional conservative political goals of liberty and limited government just yet.

    That’s the trad-con “cuckservative” argument that I think has merit, i.e. maintain a limited government, carry on stoically with our legendary white competence, and we can thrive by taking the high road, opting out of the unseemly identity politics morass that is the traditional domain of the less competent. However, in this era of diversity, enforced by institutionalized white demoralization, we need to come together under a banner of white identity to survive.

  67. “By keeping government as small as possible.”

    Unfortunately, this is in neither party’s interest, and while the GOPe has paid lip service to this idea for many decades, they have NEVER shrunk government by more than the tinniest fraction at the margins, and mostly they’ve grown it like crazy. “Muh small government” is just another ongoing lie to vote farm the cuckservative rubes, who fall for it every time (“muh Ted Crooze! muh Pawl Ryan!”).

    “Government and quasi-government organizations are far more prone to corruption than private industry.”

    No longer true. Government and most industries are in a pernicious symbiotic relationship. What, is Goldman Sachs less “corrupt” than the government? Is Apple? Is Pfizer? Hells no.

    “A rapidly growing bureacracy that is coming under the increasing control of foreigners, liberals, trannies, anti-colonialists and other assorted fruits and nuts.”

    True enough. Bad as the gubmint is (stuffed with aff ack blacks, commies and Progs), it’s only getting worse worse worse as the glorious diversity snuffles its way into the seed corn. (And I can never spell “bureacracy” right either!)

    “But it’s too early to abandon the pursue the traditional conservative political goals of liberty and limited government just yet.”

    Fair enough, but who is offering this? I don’t even hear Trump talk about cutting the size of government, though I suspect he feels it implicitly. How great would it be if, on Day One of The Trumpening, he closes, say, the Department of Education? A boy can dream.

  68. No longer true. Government and most industries are in a pernicious symbiotic relationship. What, is Goldman Sachs less “corrupt” than the government? Is Apple? Is Pfizer? Hells no.

    Yes, Apple is less corrupt with money than any government. If they’re spewing out political ideas that you or I don’t like that is a different topic.

    And Trump has been somewhat antagonistic to big banking in his comments. That doesn’t mean he will actually do much in offense but he’d surely be less cozy with Wall Street than Hillary, who got paid something like $4 million in 2014 to do several private speeches at Goldman Sachs.

    Fair enough, but who is offering this? I don’t even hear Trump talk about cutting the size of government, though I suspect he feels it implicitly. How great would it be if, on Day One of The Trumpening, he closes, say, the Department of Education? A boy can dream.

    A President Trump would be far more fiscally responsible on bureaucracy than the party that thinks a massive government program is the solution to literally every problem under the Sun. It does go without saying.

  69. But national media has not picked up this story yet, for some reason:

    I saw that. A quick google news search reveals that it has been covered by the Washington Post and the International Business Times, but where is New York Times, WSJ, Fox News, ABC, NBC, and CNN? Where is Don Lemon to lecture black people about anti-white hate crimes?

    I would really like to see what goes on behind the scenes at these (((newsrooms))) where the daily agenda gets set. Who decides what goes on the airwaves for mass consumption? I know Tucker Carlson has some alt-right leanings – I’d love to pick his brains for inside info on the who and whom behind these stories.

  70. “It’s great to see another jazz enthusiast on this blog (apologies to PA).”

    Lothar, it’s not at all prevalent on this blog, where the contributors have unpopular but principled opinions. But it’s funny on sites like CH’s when the regulars talk about something they’re not expert in, like music ranging from classical to jazz, yet they feel free to spout their ignorance, invariably believing that they’re speaking unpopular ‘truths’ in the face of p.c. when they say ridiculous stuff, like jazz isn’t as sophisticated as classical music, followed by the msot ignorant utterances imaginable re. jazz AND classical.

    Or, when you talk about the influence of Louis Armstrong, calling him an animal and then citing Bethoveen for purposes of comparison.

    That’s the only schadenfreunde-like putdown aspect I indulge in on blogs like these.

  71. “Yes, Apple is less corrupt with money than any government.”

    Are they? Is that why they have 300,000+ people working in slave labor conditions in China, rather than having 300,000 people working in American factories for solid wages?

    Let’s see, Apple made about $8 billion in profits last quarter. How much would that be reduced if they had all those jobs in America? A lot! And so what? Who would suffer by that? The rich investors and executives would be less rich. The cost of an iPhone might be higher, so people might not scramble to buy every new piece of junk Apple puts out. That would be a WIN for the American people, actually.

    And what about all their tax dodging? Oh sure, maybe it’s “legal,” but it’s also corrupt.

    Apple spent $2.25 million on lobbying (so far) in 2016, and $4.5 M in 2015. I’m sure that was just a way to say “thank you” to all the Democrats who got that money. No quid pro quos of any kind. And there’s this: “32 out of 41 Apple Inc lobbyists in 2015-2016 have previously held government jobs.” Or maybe it’s the thousands of H-1B visa workers that makes them “less corrupt” than government.

    I understand lingering big C Conservative feelings about the goodness of business vs. the badness of government — I was that guy myself for a long time. But while it may have been true once (at least somewhat), it’s not true anymore at all. EVERY major corporation is in bed with the government and utterly corrupt.

  72. I understand lingering big C Conservative feelings about the goodness of business vs. the badness of government

    Yeah, sure I don’t like corporate political power any more than you. And Trump mentioned the need to stop corporate ability to “park” profits overseas, in addition to the US need to bring back manufacturing.

    But the rise of corporate power happened throughout Western nations long ago, back when the USA was still less than 10% minority as opposed to the 30% non-white we see today. Corporate lobbyism could be curtailed and managed if we kept proper demographics.

    The “corruption” we’re going to see coming from allowing this massive 3rd-world invasion will make corporate lobbyism look like small potatoes in comparison. Bringing in brown hordes who try to get over on every and cheat our welfare state in every way is a much bigger, and irreversible sort of change. Closing the border is job #1, we can complain about the influence of corporate PAC’s later.

  73. David Lynch’s dirty creative secret is that, the powerful, symphonic sense of transcendence he is capable of and perhaps has brought, at some point, in each of his films notwithstanding, he has, or did have, a very nasty puerile streak for bringing the grossest sadism to the screen he could imagine. His interviews over the decades show this trajectory: circa “Dune” he gloated over how much more perverse his cut material was than what made it into the film (which really is a horrifyingly perverse vision, deserving of an ‘R’), and as late as “Wild at Heart” he mourned the repeated cutting his torture of Harry Dean Stanton (playing about the only forgiveable character in the film besides the romantic leads) suffered because of test audiences walking out– as it’s left on screen, what’s happening is very ominous but oblique, and really I have no idea how awful it was originally. Nowadays of course, Lynch plays Zen Master All American Boy Genius, unfiltered, in his public appearances. Maybe he mastered his demons, but maybe it’s just good publicity.

    Mulholland Drive’s complex gestation means that 3/4ths of the film almost certainly was not shot to ‘mean’ what it comes to mean in the final version. I perversely compare Blue Velvet to De Palma’s Body Double, two Hitchcockian metafictions, one representing a master coming down from his best period, the other one emerging into his. Both are virtuosic, and Blue Velvet is better– but is it MUCH better? I consider Lost Highway and Twin Peaks: Fire Walk With Me his masterworks– unfortunately, it seems he’s decided he DOESN’T want to be the Henry James of “The Turn of the Screw”. Sad!

    nikcrit, you’ve made too many slighting remarks about Mahler, whom you obviously consider some sort of mere MORTAL, even as some kind of Judeo-Viennese kitschmeister on par with the negro solemnities of the more pretentious jazz compositions, for me to humor this “pubescent” swipe about the glorious Parnassus of K-pop, in which another “Pet Sounds”-worthy single is born every three days! “Roll over, Quincy Jones . . .”

  74. I wonder if Lynch ever caught Alberto Cavalcant’s ‘Dead of Night.’ It properly executes what that proud Zen aficionado has generally only flirted with in his work: a composite sadism.

  75. There’s going to be tremendous political pressure to make sure that Birth of Nation wins multiple awards.

  76. “nikcrit, you’ve made too many slighting remarks about Mahler, whom you obviously consider some sort of mere MORTAL, even as some kind of Judeo-Viennese kitschmeister on par with the negro solemnities of the more pretentious jazz compositions, for me to humor this “pubescent” swipe about the glorious Parnassus of K-pop, in which another “Pet Sounds”-worthy single is born every three days! “Roll over, Quincy Jones . . .””

    Lol! Slighting Mahler? Me? I don’t recall that. Maybe just used him as a example that certain jazzbos are equally worthy of, stature-wise. In fact, within my lessor knowledge of classical compared to jazz, Mahler and his contemps are personal preferences of mine.

    You’re somewhat like our blog host in which it seems you MUST have some b-w dichotomy at your critical disposal in order to happily revel in the stature of your personal fave artists.

    IOW: Your amusing, wise and interesting to listen to, even inspiring at times.

    But you’ve also got a long-ass piece of snot up your snoot! It’s only fate that placed you above your social and intellectual lessors. So the disses reveal more about you than….etc, blah-blah-blah.

  77. The “corruption” we’re going to see coming from allowing this massive 3rd-world invasion will make corporate lobbyism look like small potatoes in comparison. Bringing in brown hordes who try to get over on every and cheat our welfare state in every way is a much bigger, and irreversible sort of change. Closing the border is job #1, we can complain about the influence of corporate PAC’s later.

    No argument from me on that.

    Speaking of the Benefits of Diversity and earlier comments on Asians, this story just popped up.

    “MUMBAI (Reuters) – Americans were swindled out of tens of millions of dollars in an alleged tax scam that was run for about a year from call centers on the outskirts of Mumbai, a senior investigator said on Thursday, predicting more arrests on top of the 70 made so far…. Shelke said an estimated $36.5 million was extorted from U.S. residents.”

    Basically it was a long distance shake down operation. And this is the one they caught. How much Asian Invasion fraud we have going on is something the media and government seem to show little interest in.

  78. BTW, I’m surprised at all the love shown for that piece of contemptible trash called “Blue Velvet.” John Simon had a great review which begins, “How long has it been since an American movie has garnered a harvest of laurels like the one being heaped on a piece of mindless junk called Blue Velvet?”

    You can read it here (if this crazy link works). Scroll down a bit to see it.

    https://books.google.com/books?id=1qKqcD3VMi0C&pg=PA124&lpg=PA124&dq=john+simon+blue+velvet+review&source=bl&ots=ngwjiKfet9&sig=cVNx779onXZQr6HJ487H0vU9H48&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiJjev8-cjPAhWCXD4KHY4kDssQ6AEIOTAE#v=onepage&q=john%20simon%20blue%20velvet%20review&f=false

  79. Lucius,
    Here you go: A YT treatise that ties Brahms and 19th-century melodies to “Pet-Sounds-worthy” pop and 20th-century classical masters of dissonance! lolzz.

  80. Speaking of foreign scams, I just read an article talking about the thousands of Americans still getting zapped yearly by those Nigerian “419” schemes that come by phone or email, which is unbelievable here in 2016. Western Union has actually adopted the practiced of having their wire transfer reps stop any Americans sending money to Western Africa to warn them that they could be the victim of fraud, but some stupid people still insist on sending the money anyway.

  81. peterike,

    I urge you to revisit your total and absolute condemnation of “Blue Velvet.” I recall us discussing this at GL Piggy.

    Auteurs who specialize in noir transgression have a limited scope and appeal. But FWIW and what they do, and at times their approach is culturally in tune with contempo climes, Lynch is quite masterful. “The Fire That Walks,’ the Twin Peaks prequel, along with “Blue Velvet” is unparallelled IMHO.

  82. In an attempt to follow blog-host preferences, could somebody simply and economically explain to me how to post a link with one’s own title in hypertext rather than the whole URL, which sometimes leads to a long unwieldy coded link or sometimes that video-screen ready-to-go hit ‘play’ format, both of which are exemplified upthread.

    I never learned how to re-title hypertext links!

  83. “…John Simon had a great review…”

    Comparing Lynch’s intentions to a perversely mutilated Norman Rockwell is amusingly apt for most of that mid-westerner’s endeavors. But I’d still say Blue Velvet was on point, seemingly obeying an even more peculiar will above Lynch’s own. Of course it doesn’t resemble reality. That prig review is somehow almost as strange as the film. Lynch is no Tarkovski — whose 1976 ‘Mirror’ no one has “matched” in that sinking medium. Bunuel and Bergman were the silver screen’s natural captains, both long dead.

  84. the demographic and technology-driven fragmentation of today’s mass audience into fan niches.

    This has been the case since the start of MASS media – phonographs and especially radio. Before that, there was no “mass audience” and you listened to the kind of music played by people in your community.

    We may have entered an era of post-mass media – it’s iTunes not radio and instead of 100 radio stations/genres there are a billion singles of whatever genre – and instead of broadcasting it’s “narrow-casting.”

    But the era of 1970s rock radio is not really a “golden age” we should be looking to go back to I don’t think.

    As for masculine vs. feminine and raw vs. glam, etc., I covered something similar a long time ago, specifically in music:

    https://hipsterracist.wordpress.com/2013/08/09/is-feminism-a-gender-identity-disorder/

  85. At some point it can be said that Rock (white) music fractured into many pieces. Maybe that roughly happened after the death of glam rock and after the mainstreaming of “alternative” with Nirvana. I don’t known But now white musical interests are spread across a huge spectrum.

    And white to 40 acts are now groomed and manufactured for that specific purpose only (Bieber, Timberlake, Spears).

    Black music has grown together, rap and R&B have fused.

  86. “Black music has grown together, rap and R&B have fused.”

    Interesting observation. Is there an alt- universe for black music? As you said, there are a thousand points of light for white music; genres and sub-genres all the way down. Is there black music beyond contempo Rap & B?

  87. “Is there black music beyond contempo Rap & B?”

    Yes, I’d argue there are as m any subgenres to black popular music as there are in the world of its lighter musical counterpart.

    Biggest difference is in the race-pop crucible forged in the mid-to-late 70s: American pop music since the Civil War tended to follow the lead of black-American pop in the sense that it took its cruder, rawer “more real” roots and refined them with European compositional detail; i.e., the whites-stole-and-commercialized-black-u.s.-pop theory, however tired. This is true that whites used black interpretative pop as a framework; what’s tired is the sanctimony and assumption that some intentional cultural slight was the purpose, as any complicated anthropological development is organic and interdependent or not, rather than coldly calculating from its onset, etc.

    Meanwhile, a European music development brought stateside couldn’t really relate to the above form of pop development, because the Euros didn’t culturally mature beside African-Americans; hence, dissident Euro pop borrowed from the historic Euro Avant-Garde and, come the late 60s, developed into serial (12-tone; i.e. non-blues-based) rock and experimental pop, via John Cage, and stateside progenitors like the MC-5 and Iggy Pop and others.

    Hence, the major split in Western pop: classic-rock, which has black southern roots, vs. ‘alt-rock’ or ‘new-wave’, whose roots lay within the European Avant-Garde; i.e., Bowie, the Human League and gah-zillion other examples.

    Interestingly, many consider the development of rap as the first ‘black post-modern’ pop form since the later 60s experimental jazz movements, a la the Art Ensemble of Chicago.

    Further irony rests within the fact that much proto-rap, from the 70s in NY boroughs, was generated by Kraftwerk and other proto-techno Euro artists and technologies.

  88. “Is there black music beyond contempo Rap & B?”

    Yes, I’d argue there are as m any subgenres to black popular music as there are in the world of its lighter musical counterpart.

    The younger generation of black isn’t one-dimensional in their tastes at all, they’re known for loving Hip Hop but they also happen to love Rap as well !!

  89. “Hence, the major split in Western pop: classic-rock, which has black southern roots, vs. ‘alt-rock’ or ‘new-wave’, whose roots lay within the European Avant-Garde; i.e., Bowie, the Human League and gah-zillion other examples.”

    Biggest example of the above divide: the pop feuds that developed in London during the late 70s between black-influenced classic-rock bands like the Rolling Stones and The Who vs. non-blues-influenced upstarts like The Sex Pistols.

    It’s quaint and silly now, but there were once urban riots on London streets between punkers and rockers when punk-rock debuted in ’76 or thereabouts.

  90. “Yes, I’d argue there are as many subgenres to black popular music as there are in the world of its lighter musical counterpart.”

    Like? Your explanation didn’t mention any.

  91. “Biggest example of the above divide: the pop feuds that developed in London during the late 70s between black-influenced classic-rock bands like the Rolling Stones and The Who vs. non-blues-influenced upstarts like The Sex Pistols.”

    I don’t think that was about blues vs. non-blues. It was attitudinal. It was 7 minute turgid “epics” vs. 2 1/2 minute toons. And in any case, I didn’t see punk as a response to the Stones/Who. More a response to Styx, Yes, ELP, Pink Floyd, Zeppelin, Tull, and the other pretentious bands of the era that didn’t speak to the youts anymore.

  92. “Lol! Slighting Mahler? Me? I don’t recall that. Maybe just used him as a example that certain jazzbos are equally worthy of, stature-wise. In fact, within my lessor knowledge of classical compared to jazz, Mahler and his contemps are personal preferences of mine.

    You’re somewhat like our blog host in which it seems you MUST have some b-w dichotomy at your critical disposal in order to happily revel in the stature of your personal fave artists.”

    Now see, that’s exactly what I’m talking about. Maybe you’d personally be comfortable treating Mozart or Bach (or Shakespeare or Dante) as “personal faves” too. But I suspect your comfort with fashionable relativism has a certain cut-off date going backwards: you’ve imbibed, consciously or not, the 20th Century (largely Jewish!) backlash against Late Romanticism and relativized it against the jazz era, so that in your view Coltrane and Parker, Mahler and Shostakovich, are just a bunch of hep cats vying for whose crazy tunes make beeches drop dey pants quicker (Q-tip once shared with M-TV his recommendation for “Mahler’s Fifth”– we’ll assume he means the Adagietto– for putting girls in the mood).

    “But you’ve also got a long-ass piece of snot up your snoot!” –Well, let’s hope so. nikcrit, you’re coming perilously close to the banal Darkie intuition that Venus de Milo must have some snot up her snoot too. Next thing you know you’ll be hectoring us poor uptight haute bourgeoises about the “dead white pelvis”. Dichotomies, you say?

    “It’s only fate that placed you above your social and intellectual lessors.”

    In fairness, many Alt Righters who should know better have indulged the same biomechanistic determinism, to their shame. This is bad metaphysics. Is the beauty of the rose compared to the weed merely an “accident of birth”? What nonsense. Everything is what it is. Categories, too, are what they are. The weed has no right to complain. “Fate” cannot make the weed a rose, anymore than she can make a man a rock or a rock a seeing-eye rock. As Tom Cruise told Brat Pitt, “You are what you are!”

    Besides, who says that, to the admiring eyes of the world, I’m so socially vaunted?

  93. John Simon was a terrific writer, and his negative review of “Last Tango in Paris” is a prized example of a piece of flawless insight with which I completely disagree (or at least used to). At his best, Simon can be “right about everything” even when he’s wrong.

    But lord, was he bitchy. He trashed everything from Rohmer’s “La Collectionneuse” to Visconti’s “Ludwig”, often damning the ladies in colorful comparisons to various unprepossessing barnyard animals. He had a curious affection for, of all directors, Bruce Beresford.

    The breathlessly riveting set-piece in “Lost Highway” when (now Oscar winner!) Patricia Arquette and whatshisnut return to their home is on a Tarkovsky level, the uncanny raised to inimitable heights. Compared to that godlike journey into the metaphysical heart of darkness, even the delirious freakout set-piece in Isabella Rossellini’s apartment that ends the brilliant 40 mins. of “where is this going?” set-up in “Blue Velvet” pales into ‘mere’ suspense filmmaking.

  94. “you’ve imbibed, consciously or not, the 20th Century (largely Jewish!) backlash against Late Romanticism and relativized it against the jazz era, so that in your view Coltrane and Parker, Mahler and Shostakovich, are just a bunch of hep cats vying for whose crazy tunes make beeches drop dey pants quicker”

    Nope, Mr. Goy highbrow: please don’t put your overeroticized negro-ized interpretations on me.

    Ironically, i’m past the era of sexualizing my cultural interpretations; what about you, Mr. K-pop?

    (Lucius, in truth, I’m not even mentally familiar and nimble enough with the western classical music canon to pull off the transgressive-decon hijinx you accuse me of! lolzz.)

  95. lucius,
    RE. Lost Highway,

    I sensed that was among Lynch’s masterworks but could never really get my head wrapped around his intentions……. I liked the style; liked Arquette’s performance as well……. somehow, I took the major premise to be some sort ‘parallell identity’ statement of Lynch, embodied by the Bill Pulliam character destined/fated to repeat the angst-ridden life of the mechanic, the ….. Pete Drayton (was that the name?) character —– all leading up to some sort-of, you can run but you can’t hide from your existential destiny sort-of denouement.

    Is that close?

    Educate me, Mr. literary-romanticist sage; I’d imagin Lynch and his ouevre is sort-of a bit of slumming for you, no?

  96. — This has been the case since the start of MASS media – phonographs and especially radio. Before that, there was no “mass audience” and you listened to the kind of music played by people in your community.

    We may have entered an era of post-mass media – it’s iTunes not radio and instead of 100 radio stations/genres there are a billion singles of whatever genre – and instead of broadcasting it’s “narrow-casting.” (Hipster Racist)

    Right. But there is still public space, and that is where you can’t cocoon off into your niche genre. Any time you go into a D.J.’d event, school dance, sports game, national chain gym, bowling alley, bar, and so on, you will hear the manufactured or organic Top 40 consensus. You’ll either like what you hear and feel that it is a cultural extension of you, even if you’re too old for the scene (i.e., you could be at a roller skating rink birthday party with your child) — or it will get on your nerves, or you can just be indifferernt to it. Either way, music defines the culture. Trite popular music especially.

  97. Twin Peaks did not grab me, back then. Does it stand the test of time?

    Dune, the movie directed by David Lynch, was no good. Kyle MacLachlan as Paul was miscast. I think that that movie could have been done on a small scale, set (and filmed) as if it were in a theatre.

    Never saw Blue Velvet.

    ******************

    The comparison between jazz and classical is … difficult. I won’t opine on it, but to say that my preference (between those two categories) is for mid-20th century jazz. Classical music leaves me cold. The rhythm of it is too contrived.

    In my opinion, music is secondary to dance, as for what it is about. Music is so that people can dance. That is what people want to do.

    Classical music is not for that, though. Classical music is to be sat and listened to. So perhaps it is a separate category, and separate thing, and comparisons with other styles of music are misplaced.

  98. — Classical music leaves me cold.

    I drive to work when it’s still very dark and in that setting, the classical music NPR station is ideal. It’s healthy to get away from pop/rock because lyrics highjack thought. The station, by good intuition, plays piano pieces/concertos when it rains. I don’t know anything abut Jazz but I did listen to my Miles Davis CD on occasion on my long drives in my 20s. Always at night though.

  99. It came up earlier, music that energizes and motivates you. It occurred to me, as I commented, that high-T rock like Metallica or Foo Fighters does the job, but then you feel spent. A slow rising classical composition like Tannhauser Overture though…

  100. The underbelly of L.A. junket land; one wrong turn on the Lost Highway can lead to some uneasy bedfellows, neighbor…

    . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZowK0NAvig

    Lynch always has one cameo hipster apparition that all but steals the show: Robert Blake in Lost Highway; Dean Stockwell in Blue Velvet……. but he works best creating punk noir creatures of the avant underbelly; his black rare black characters lack the subversively transgressiveb detail that his earlier steal-the-show finds possessed.

    That perhaps best accounts for his slide from the transgressive zeitgeist in recent decades; that or the typical mellowing with time and age. His recent music ventures are pure serial sidetracks, from what I’ve heard. Stuck in unseemly lounge-lizard mode.

  101. “there are as many subgenres to black popular music as there are in the world of its lighter musical counterpart.”…..Like? Your explanation didn’t mention any.”

    Yes, I mentioned the emerging punk/wave bands of the late 70s, i.e., Sex Pistols, the Damned and Devo, and contrasted them against the old guard that was most threatened and defensive by and about them; i.e., the Stones, the Who, Led zeppelin. But you’re right; the bands most obliterated and made instantly obsolete by the punk/wave juggernaut, were the dinosaurs you mentioned, Styx, Journey, REO Speedwagon and all the other abominations that my subjective disgust says should’ve never existed to begin with.

    But it was interesting how the old-school bbands who had their own punk ethos roots and were respectful but intimidated by them reacted to that late 70s movement; Of them all, Townshend was the most reflective and reactive to the challenge; his solo album, “Empty Glass’ was a good, hard and talented reckoning to that challenge, and, IMHO, a worthy canon-bearer representing the truce between bands such as the Who and then-emerging punk upstarts. “Empty Glass” features one of the greatest punk-to-vintage rocker truce anthems, “Rough Boys.: IMHO, a great song off a brave and noble album. In any case, Townshend was the one who was most threatened by the punk surge; he became a sort-of lecturer on the subject and a de facto diplomat between representatives of those two clashing generational ‘sides.’

  102. If there was ever a movie made for remake to which an attempted SJW convergence would totally fail due an original conceptual vision STILL ahead in terms of “radical autonomy,” it is “Blade Runner.”

    It seems “we” have hit a critical mass where the “collective consciousness” is wholly uncertain. “We” have a mass of “individuals” not very sure of their humanness. Ultimately, this ties right into their “belief” in “possessing” no genuine free will.

    The “music” is as a desperate cry asserting otherwise.

    Real music sets *you* CERTAINLY ALIVE.

  103. The problem with “cycles” is that they imply “redundancy” and “redundancy” CANNOT BE the highest reality.

    Music tends towards “radical autonomy…” Redundancy… Cycles…

    Or musical tends towards objective Supremacy… Perfection… Highest Reality.

    But music can also elicit desire towards both, near simultaneously.

    Perfect redundancy AS the cycles of life…

    Again, the soundtrack to “Blade Runner” captures this phenomenon as well as any modern music has, IMHO. And it is a very humble opinion.

  104. I’ve been attempting to train to the Libera channel on Pandora… It takes another level of discipline to fight train to regenerate music.

  105. In my opinion, music is secondary to dance, as for what it is about. Music is so that people can dance. That is what people want to do.

    Lol wut

    Also, I’ve never understood people who really listen to lyrics.

  106. The black appropriation of K-Pop, coming soon to a pop niche near you…

    . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqky5B179nM

    This vid actually encompassess or at least ‘touches upon’ every pop trend and digression we discussed yesterday: white-of-black pop appropriation; black-of-white appropriation, thus transgression,’; negro-pop primitivism (nikki rewriting the lyrics to describe herself as a ‘fucking salvage.’. And most of all: the bastardization of a iconic pop ditty: the tune is a slight musical reworking of The Buggles “Video Killed the Radio Star,’ the very first song and vid played on MTV in 1979

  107. Also, I’ve never understood people who really listen to lyrics.

    Words are often wasted.

    *********

    As far as the dance thing, are we supposed to pretend it’s gay, because they don’t dance to metal, they just bang their heads?

    Two and two equals four pal. In other words, what is metal about, but to bang your head. Don’t be dense.

  108. In other words, what is metal about, but to bang your head.

    I hadn’t thought about it this way; I see your point. I must say that to me the purpose of music has always been to fire the imagination – no dancing required. But, you’re probably right… most people probably just want to dance.

    Also, classical music isn’t for dancing?! Look, I’m not much for dancing and even I could imagine doing some kind of a fine dance with a beautiful and elegantly-dressed lady to this stuff: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TLpuCxUDYU#t=105s

    Not to mention Handel’s water music.

    Also also, if I remember correctly, someone argued recently that rap music hasn’t and won’t produce any “classics” that will stand the test of time, or something like that. Initially I agreed, until I heard Can’t Touch This on the radio. I think that one will last.

    high-T rock like Metallica or Foo Fighters

    Um, whaaaa? You’re putting this and this into the same category? Am I missing something here??

  109. O.T.@PA,

    This story sorta bridges a topic and a social interest of yours; I think the story is right, yet there’s an element in which you’re right and the story’s point is off: That southern roots rock is, in varying moments, both a confirmation of old conservative values and a renouncement/’refinement’ of vintage social and racial attitudes.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/09/arts/music/drive-by-truckers-southern-progressive-bands.html

    (Have to say, anecdotally speaking, bands I’d encounter face-to-face like “Southern Culture on the Skids” were certainly not conservative in racial or gender manners. lolzz.

    Not having traveled much in the south, i’ve got a sort of dated and monolithic mindset on the matter; i picture these stoic and proud racists and paleo-conservatives, willing for a truce but ready to be a menace if provoked.

    That’s probably quite silly; odds are major southern cities are just like the rest of the 21st-century urban America: one big box-store-strung “CostcoSamClubAppleby’s.Chili’s”

  110. — That’s probably quite silly; odds are major southern cities are just like the rest of the 21st-century urban America: one big box-store-strung “CostcoSamClubAppleby’s.Chili’s

    Is it silly? Maybe, maybe not. The whole struggle between globalism and nationalism (or McWorld vs Jhiad as the late-90s book went) might be a cyclical thing too.

  111. RE. Our recent pop debate about the merits of Billy Joel versus those of Elton John, I thought this here link touched upon some of the points we (I) made —— namely that, love him or hate him, Billy Joel is nonetheless an undeniably talented songwriter.

    It’s funny in that i’m neither a solid fan of Joel or John on a personal level —– but i cannot deny the talents of either. And while I like John’s music more than Joel’s, with all the objectivity i can muster I would have to say that Joel is the superior writing talent, measured in terms of versatility and pop compositional skill.

    This article makes the point I made: Joel measures up over time as good or better than some of his fellow dinosaur rockers:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/26/magazine/billy-joel-on-not-working-and-not-giving-up-drinking.html?action=click&contentCollection=Music&module=RelatedCoverage&region=Marginalia&pgtype=article

  112. Isn’t Elton John primarily a performer, with most of his songs having been written by Bernie Taupin (or did Taupin just write the lyrics?)

  113. That’s probably quite silly; odds are major southern cities are just like the rest of the 21st-century urban America: one big box-store-strung “CostcoSamClubAppleby’s.Chili’s”

    The South is probably much worse than the rest of the USA when it comes to “canned” suburban development of the worst type. The low regulation and cheap cost of building in the South make it much easier to keep building further outwards into sprawl-topia by throwing up more big box-anchored McShopping centers with corner McRestaurant – as opposed to renovation of existing, older buildings with real architectural value and character.

  114. I’ve never appreciated the World of difference between the South at large and Appalachia until I traveled extensively to both. In far-western NC mountains, for example and away from SWPL and ski havens, there simply is no development — except that roads are excellent. As one local told me, road improvement is fed tax money for local jobs. But it’s nothing but mountains and little clusters of homes with hens running out into the road. There is even an Esso station at one place I know, and it’s under historic registry. There are also auto repair shops in ancient, renovated brick and stone structures.

  115. Cam,
    Did you check out the link to that nytimes story about ‘progressive’ southern-rock bands , like Drive by Truckers? I’d be curious to get your opinion, too, Southern Man..

    PA,
    I’m not sure of the exact provenance of Elton John songs; i’ve read that Taupin’s influenced tapered off fairly early, then other articles say that’s not so, etc.

    I’m not sure about how they divided lyrics vs melodies, but i’d presume Elton could handle the music since he seems quite nimble on the keys, etc.

    Point is, love, like it, hate it or be totally indifferent, guys like Joel and John do a lot more musically than most pop stars. That’s neither noble nor pompous; pop is justified on its own merits and whatever pleases someone has some merit, IMO. but FWIW, Joel and John are both very skilled tunesmiths; if they were born earlier, i could see both of them being Tin-Pan Alley writers on the level of Gershwin and other earlier supreme popsmiths.

  116. “In far-western NC mountains, for example and away from SWPL and ski havens, there simply is no development — “

    The weather coverage of the storms were touching upon that fact, saying a lot of the hardest hit areas were deserted for seasonal reasons, etc.; they then did some broadcast interviews from Lumberton, N.C.

    Quiz: regular PA World and Times readers: What recent movie and director recently discussed here has a connection to Lumberton?

  117. ncrit – Do you have some working definition of ‘pop,’ other than simply mass appeal?

    Also, “There’s a whole lotta wood waitin’ out there, so let’s get goin’!”

  118. “Also, “There’s a whole lotta wood waitin’ out there, so let’s get goin’!””

    Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding! Hey neighbors, It looks like we got ourselves a winner here; the answer to today’s question was, of course, “Blue Velvet,” cinematically commandeered by Mr. David Lynch.

  119. In far-western NC mountains, for example and away from SWPL and ski havens, there simply is no development — except that roads are excellent. As one local told me, road improvement is fed tax money for local jobs.

    This is correct.

    But the fact that the rural South always has much better roads than expected has a lot to do with the great power or rural politicians in the South due to their relationship with evangelical leaders – and they can steer $$ dollars to their area, and the pork is to award the road-building contracts to their friends in landscaping, construction, trucking, logging, etc. In contrast, states like Illinois, NYC or PA will be completely dominated by Chicago or Philadelphia politicians.

    And the Olympic bomber Eric Rudolph was able to hide undetected in the very remote and rugged Western NC mountains for many years – he only got caught because he got lonely, tired, low on “comfort” supplies and sloppy.

  120. Quiz: regular PA World and Times readers: What recent movie and director recently discussed here has a connection to Lumberton?

    If you want to see a curious racial mix take a look at theLumbee Indiansof that region. Most are an equal parts mix of black, white and various Indian groups (Tuscarora, Creek, Cherokee).

    Every attempt they’ve made to get official recognition has failed, basically because they have too much white blood and many are very successful in regional society.

  121. “If you want to see a curious racial mix take a look at theLumbee Indians of that region.”

    You’re not kidding; take a look at this group and at the male mudshark (or is it ‘coal-burner’ when it’s wm-bf pairing?) in the upper-right-hand corner! 🙂

  122. Camlost, et.al,
    Don’t you mean to say “YOUR ALT-RIGHT BROTHER-IN-ARMS, Eric Rudolph?

    Read this passage authored by Rudolph on his reason for committing the bombings, read in court in 2005:

    “In the summer of 1996, the world converged upon Atlanta for the Olympic Games. Under the protection and auspices of the regime in Washington millions of people came to celebrate the ideals of global socialism. Multinational corporations spent billions of dollars, and Washington organized an army of security to protect these best of all games. Even though the conception and the purpose of the so-called Olympic movement is to promote the values of global socialism as perfectly expressed in the song “Imagine” by John Lennon, which was the theme of the 1996 Games—even though the purpose of the Olympics is to promote these ideals, the purpose of the attack on July 27 was to confound, anger and embarrass the Washington government in the eyes of the world for its abominable sanctioning of abortion on demand. The plan was to force the cancellation of the games, or at least create a state of insecurity to empty the streets around the venues and thereby eat into the vast amounts of money invested.[7] “

    Sound familiar? Hmmmm.

  123. I was there in Alanta in ’96… Traversed the area of the bombing on several occasions… It was hardly noticed on the ground… Not a peep of shutting the Olympics down. Rudolph’s stated aim only half succeeded in that he simply failed to acknowledge that a critical mass of high IQ “white” males are PRO-abortion AND bona-fide self-annihilators. Where he did succeed was in exposing the prejudicial “incompetence” of UncleBeast although his capture mitigates his “success” quite substantially.

  124. Uhmm, my point was sort-of off target; Rudolph actually is speaking benignly of the ‘global socialism’ he describes, and that he notes was embodied into the event’s choice of “Imagine” as the theme song.

    I took it at first that he was against all that; but in fact he was at best indifferent, but actually condoning of that goal. But he was mortified by abortion and homosexuality, according to his own words.

    It is a bit ambiguous.

    How did you interpret his statement?

  125. p.s.—– I was sort-of employing that the loose cannon that his Rudolph was pretty much down with the Alt-Right’s foundational goals —– but then I reconsidered; it’s hard to get a strong sense of conviction in any direction from that statement; the rest of the wiki page stuff is inconclusive too.

    The only hardcore ‘againsts’ are abortion and homosexual rights.

  126. Trickin, I don’t support any extra-political violence although some do within the alt-right.

    And Rudolph explicitly disavows WN or any racialist talk in his prison writings, and there’s zero evidence to say he believed in such things before his apprehension.

  127. Actually, just call Rudolph a “deplorable” and he can be thrown into any virtually any bucket full of straight, non-SWPL white guys.

  128. cam,
    yes, i said that i misread his intentions; it was eerie, though, him citing “Imagine’; I took that as a gripe, but he actually put it forth as a positive thing, even if in a sort-of platitude-like way……I’d actually like to see that initial comment of mine and these follow-up remarks deleted, if the host doesn’t mind. It’s based on a sloppy initial reading.

  129. yeah, on his wiki page it says his father passed when he was a young teen and he and his mother went to one of those survivalist christian-like camps, run by some Koresh-like character.

    I know you alt-right guys respect these naturist rebels, ‘cuz they stand up to the feds, but there’s something to such environments that can set of a sort-of isolated insanity in types vulnerable to that bent. A certain scriptural dogma to go with an already unhinged persona.

  130. A certain scriptural dogma to go with an already unhinged persona.

    What man doesn’t want to be worshipped like a God in a small society where he has exclusive sexual access to women of every age?

  131. I’ll tell you Nikcrit’s point…

    Make an aversion for explicit self-annihilation, ie., abortion and homosexuality, the religion of degenerate white Christians SO THAT the embrace of self-annihilation becomes the hallmark of “regenerate “white Christianity.”

    One DOES NOT NEED Christianity to reject the self-annihilation that is abortion and homosexuality. In other words, RELATIVISM fails when it claims one who simply rejects self-annihilation AS ONE who automatically embraces white Supremacy. This is a fallacious distortion of realty for personal gain in most accounts.

    Eric Rudolph rejected the self-annihilation of abortion and homosexuality AS SANITY would dictate. Being jailed FOREVER so as to make this belief known to the wider world is what is tinged with insanity.

  132. One DOES NOT NEED Christianity to reject the self-annihilation that is abortion and homosexuality. I

    Rudolph sure was prophetic in that he was railing against the “gay agenda” at a time when it really didn’t have much power yet in the 90’s. I remember thinking that gay rights was laughable and would never get much steam beyond same-sex marriage rights in hippie strongholds like Vermont or Oregon, but now you can be ARRESTED in places like NYC for not referring to someone by their preferred gender pronoun. (out of 31 gender possibilities)

  133. “Eric Rudolph rejected the self-annihilation of abortion and homosexuality AS SANITY would dictate. Being jailed FOREVER so as to make this belief known to the wider world is what is tinged with insanity.”

    I tend to understand WTF you’re getting at much, much better when you apply your principles and ethos to some realpolitik circumstance or case study.

  134. Rudolph sure was prophetic in that he was railing against the “gay agenda” at a time when it really didn’t have much power yet in the 90’s.

    It’s something that has changed rapidly, within my own lifetime. The gays are now a completely assimilated identity in the pop culture landscape. Make of that what you will – I’m just reporting the facts on the ground. I’m sure it has as much to do with the gay agenda as it does with the overall sexual liberalization unleashed in the 60s.

  135. this vid exemplifies the exchanges PA, I and others made about how, in assessing today’s pop-music scene, the very tools of the trade (bass, guitar, keys, drums-vs-midi-sampled instruments and sounds and automated percussion, etc.).

    How would you go about conveying this to someone upon being asked “how was the concert tonight?”

  136. Cam, re. out talk about the Lumbee Indians; what’s the most prominent tribe in Georgia, proper?
    for instance, in my neck of the u.s., it’s the Potowatomi tribe.

  137. I’m pretty sure that Georgia was 100% cleared of Creek and Choctaw Indians, via the Trail of Tears. Georgia does not have a single extant Indian reservation, and I don’t think that SC does either. The Eastern Cherokee managed to survive in the rugged NC Mountains via the safety of that difficult territory and have a reservation there, which is not far from Eric Rudolph’s hiding place.

    I think the remaining Lumbees are a hodgepodge of remnant coastals like the Tuscarora, Croatan etc. etc.

  138. “, I don’t support any extra-political violence although some do within the alt-right.”

    What else is there, except for fear of the mob, to keep our soulless elite in check?

    They should go to bed at night knowing large swaths of the country are locked and loaded, just waiting for the right moment.

  139. As Hillary’s $275,000 a pop two faced speeches to Goldman Sachs have revealed, we are nothing but cattle to these people.

    The last thing you want is your livestock turning on you.

  140. “They should go to bed at night knowing large swaths of the country are locked and loaded, just waiting for the right moment.”

    Well, MGE has nearly completed his fantastical journey, from passively swayed and aspiring Rustbelt SWPL to right-reactionary anti-p.c. derring-do.

    But the mission won’t be totally complete until he subscribes to this publication

    http://www.gunsandammo.com/

    (Cam, perhaps there’s a free year subscription for you promotion if you sign up MGE?) lolzz.

  141. They should go to bed at night knowing large swaths of the country are locked and loaded, just waiting for the right moment.

    High gun ownership and conservative control over the military are the Trump cards for the White Right, even though some deluded alt righters think that minor mob violence/threats and infantile, useless Timothy McVeigh type of activity have real strategic value.

  142. (Cam, perhaps there’s a free year subscription for you promotion if you sign up MGE?) lolzz.

    You’re laughing now but if you show up at the gates sheepishly begging to use that free pass you’re going to have to pull triple duty on the main guard tower for many years. And hopefully you can be taught better aim that your father’s kin who can’t seen to hit anything they’re aiming at during their drive-bys in the midwest. lolzzzz

  143. Nikcrit I haven’t fired a rifle since Boy Scouts. I don’t own a gun and probably never will. I just want to know that I will be able to arm myself if it ever comes to that.

    I’m merely pointing out the historical fact that without a fear of violence the elite will further consolidate their power and exploit their minions.

  144. One way to destroy a large swath of parasites is to gorge “it” to death. And across both “left” and “right” is a core mass of high IQ “white” liberationists working prophetably to bring such GORGE about.

  145. The real threat to them won’t be guns. Soon all manner of advanced weaponry may be available and in the hands of citizens via 3D printing. I’m imagining a future where drone warfare won’t be the sole domain of the USG

  146. The real threat to them won’t be guns. Soon all manner of advanced weaponry may be available and in the hands of citizens via 3D printing.

    It doesn’t matter what the weapons are, white men will be far better at organizing and executing warfare than anyone on the planet. The fruits, nuts and weirdos composing the Obama/SJW coalition will have their hands full just dealing with each other, finding spare parts or making pitiful attempts to organize themselves, at which point they will realize that they have zero in common.

  147. “And hopefully you can be taught better aim that your father’s kin who can’t seen to hit anything they’re aiming at during their drive-bys in the midwest. lol”

    Actually, and oddly enough, i somehow have good aim; i’ve only shot BB and pellet guns, but was close on target. I did do archery for years; believe it or not, i went through a middle-to-early-high-school fetish for Bow and Arrow, and I was a great aim. (some instructor said i had an advantage because i was big and strong at a young age, thus able to have a steadier hand when lining up the shot, which understandably enough is said to be key in having good archery aim.

    “It doesn’t matter what the weapons are, white men will be far better at organizing and executing warfare than anyone on the planet.”

    Borne out of familiar history, that may be a comforting thought —– but there’s really not a lot of hard evidence to predict that cultural-hierarchal homeostasis, and the reason there isn’t is because of the very innovations and technologies that the white man created.

    The key symbolic example for era and epoch, of course, is the Atomic bomb; we created it —— but now, via white man’s technological prowess, coupled with his open democratic ways and media rights —- nations and peoples who couldn’t do it before now can do it and some may already h ave.

    From there, you could say that about hundreds of innovations, from email and e-archiving, and the opps and implications that come from it….. Norman Mailer, in his later period, became sort-of expert on this topic: his muse focused on the melancholy of the white man ——- what happens when the King gets blue and sees his Kingdom as a prison?

  148. Dude Norman Mailer was a neurotic Jew. Stop harping on your melancholy white male archetype. It isnt working.

  149. Borne out of familiar history, that may be a comforting thought —– but there’s really not a lot of hard evidence to predict that cultural-hierarchal homeostasis, and the reason there isn’t is because of the very innovations and technologies that the white man created.

    That statement draws the wrong conclusion from its (correct) premise.

    White men created the weapons of war, and THEREFORE they will be BETTER at deploying them, and more than that though, adapting to the new situation.

    Because blacks are able to garner as many likes on social media, they are adept at technology now?

    Excuse me while i have a good laugh.

  150. but there’s really not a lot of hard evidence to predict that cultural-hierarchal homeostasis

    Except for all of history.

    Except for thaty, there is no evidence that Whites are more adept at technology and organization.

  151. The key symbolic example for era and epoch, of course, is the Atomic bomb; we created it —— but now, via white man’s technological prowess, coupled with his open democratic ways and media rights —- nations and peoples who couldn’t do it before now can do it and some may already have

    No, no and no. How many people on the planet drive cars? How many peoples on the planet can actually manufacture cars? Still just white folks and the Japanese.

    Outside of the white man (including Russia and South Africa) and China no other countries even have the capability to deliver atomic weapons. Pakistan and India have rudimentary nukes but probably can’t get them beyond their own borders, for all intents and purposes.

    Technology seems so natural and easy for NAM’s when they can just go pick it up at Best Buy. But when you have to find spare parts and run a real economy things become much different and the values, abilities and tendencies that allow you to create those cultural items become much more important again when you can’t just siphon off of the tech or commercial advances that the Western society has commodotized.

    How as it so easy for a ridiculously tiny number of white settlers and administrators to control colonial Africa? Just shut off the flow of technology, spare parts and consumer goods.

    but there’s really not a lot of hard evidence to predict that cultural-hierarchal homeostasis, and the reason there isn’t is because of the very innovations and technologies that the white man created

    There’s plenty of evidence that white folks will stick together when need requires it. That evidence is called history.

    Your ideas about technology changing society have some merit, but not during warfare or unstable times. The proliferation of blank-slater and liberal, decadent, cushy Western ideas only happen in societies that are stable and successful enough to allow for such fantasies, but if warfare, unrest or catastrophe turn the world raw and real all of that bullsh*t is out the window.

  152. I am not pointing the finger at anyone in particular, like say for instance Trickin, but a lot of urban people, whether or not they are swapples and or libsters and striver try-hards — a lot of them get their idea of white people from the white people they see and live amongst.

    And in that environment, many of those white people are swapples and lobsters and striver try-hards. That group is not a representative sample of Whites. It is a very select group, with its own attributes.

    White people who live outside of the cities, and out in the country, are very hands-on and mechanically adept. Those talents extend to their city brethren, but don’t get developed there, and so the soft-handedness becomes a tell and it carries over into how they present and how others think of them.

  153. I am not pointing the finger at anyone in particular, like say for instance Trickin, but a lot of urban people, whether or not they are swapples and or libsters and striver try-hards — a lot of them get their idea of white people from the white people they see and live amongst.

    A lot of liberals get their ideas about all people from their political fancies. My SWPL urban white friends typically have ZERO black friends, but they will “retweet” a bunch of pro-BLM comments all day. But they wouldn’t actually want to live in Ferguson or in any other neighborhood that featured a few Michael Browns, who they could never spent 5 minutes around comfortably in a social setting.

    If the conservative, straight whites disappeared from this country the remaining Obama coalitionists couldn’t even keep the lights on or paychecks clearing for 1 month.

  154. “Because blacks are able to garner as many likes on social media, they are adept at technology now?”

    No, but the mere fact that counter-weaponry is damaging and widely available (read; by those lessor, antagonistic or parasitic nations or citizenry) means the task is daunting; modern rad-islam terrorism is a perfect example; much of what ‘they’ use is tech borne of white ingenuity, etc.

  155. ^
    And if we could just stop meddling in their sectarian conflicts, we would stop straight up giving them that tech. Unfortunately our military industrial complex is always looking for new customers.

  156. “Except for thaty, there is no evidence that Whites are more adept at technology and organization.”

    There was absolutely nothing preceding that comment of yours above that would lead you or anyone reasonable to conclude that I was implying that “there is no evidence that white people are more adept at new technology.”

    In fact, everything I said was based within a premise that white ARE more adept in terms of technology and that its’ innovations are freely exchanged and discussed has, ironically, made the world more dangerous in that it’s brought a sort-of parity to international security for those deserving and not.

    elk, you m ust’ve started hitting the bottle early today…… Geeez, i’m not even home from work yet!

  157. “MGE | October 12, 2016 at 3:09 pm
    Dude Norman Mailer was a neurotic Jew. Stop harping on your melancholy white male archetype. It isnt working.”

    Not really. Not for Angela Merkel. Not for Hillary. Not for many-upon-many hand-me-down generation Anglo-elites.

    Speak for yourself.

    Not everyone is all wide-eyed and feeling raw with passion from fresh ideological conversion and convictions.

  158. RE: “Speechless “

    Whoa! Where the fuk did that come from? That was weird wild….. I’ve never entertained the idea of a racial-miscegenation drama being in another drama, such as sci-fi.

    i’m going to check some more into that. crazy.

  159. Whoa! Where the fuk did that come from? That was weird wild

    I will have to see the whole movement to make a judgment. But I’m guessing that there’s some “gotcha” at the end where the director will say “yeah, this didn’t actually happen, but…”

    Either way, the underlying, titillating fantasy this movie provides to black audiences is the thought that they are in constant physical danger from whites. It’s an idea that they absolutely love, love, love, coupled with revenge fantasy, of course. Even the professional, seemingly well-adjusted and well-meaning whites will go through enormous trouble to coordinate new ways to secretly harm innocent black people.

    It kinda dovetails with the whole BLM movement and the explosion of blacks being obsessed with the idea that every day police and agents of “the system” are shooting them down “in cold blood” simply for being black.

  160. “It kinda dovetails with the whole BLM movement and the explosion of blacks being obsessed with the idea that every day police and agents of “the system” are shooting them down “in cold blood” simply for being black.”

    The most pro-“Narrative” i’m willing to be is to entertain the system that, given the disproportionate behavior among the races has been so consistent, so true to the aggregate norm, that I’m willing to believe that the consequent ‘corrections culture’ —- i.e., prison system and its attendant budget and staffing estimates and justifications, etc. —— aids in the perpetuation of the black lumpen-prole population.

    IOW: what Chuck D of Public Enemy labeled the matrix of urban police, courts and correction facilities: “The Nigger Machine.”

    And surely, when a problem that codes to color among society persist as long as it has, one can only expect for a certain amount of ‘biz-as-usual’ to prevail, replete with all the stereotypes and expectations one could only expect or even count on being there.

    Still, having said all that, i see tons of instances —- whether at school, on the street, or in the criminal justice system —— where white workers who deal with black lumpenproles bend over backwards to cut someone a break, to NOT have to face that ever-present stereotype. You see truly joyous looks on these peoples’ faces when they are presently surprised along these lines in some way.

    I remain open on the issue. Being too liberal or too reactionary doesn’t make sense for outliers and others who, for whatever reasons, find themselves on the societal margins, whether in advantageous ;position or not.

  161. p.s.——– of course, there are those exceptions like cam and other pure-to-the-bone raycists, who take their ill-will toward the black man to supernatural places, a la Jordan Peele’s ‘Get Out.”

    Racial malaise is both existential and spiritual, dude!

  162. prison system and its attendant budget and staffing estimates and justifications, etc. —— aids in the perpetuation of the black lumpen-prole population.

    IOW: what Chuck D of Public Enemy labeled the matrix of urban police, courts and correction facilities: “The Nigger Machine.”

    Nikcrit, violent crime went waaaay down in this country in the 90s because we started locking people up in the “Nigger Machine.” (almost everyone in federal prison is there for violent crime) And the people who benefited the most were peaceful, law abiding blacks who were victims of violent crime. Incidentally, it was the black folks were often most vocal about getting these people off the streets!!

    I am sympathetic to the argument that the prison industrial complex perpetuates or amplifies a culture of criminality. But if you want to say it’s solely “the system” then you have to explain why violent crime is elevated wherever blacks congregate in the entire world, in absence of the US criminal justice system.

  163. Symbiotic regression…

    When two self-annihilating entities find perpetuation through direct violent conflict and mass public exploitation.

    B(lack)LM + B(lue)LM = Symbiotic Regression to All lives matter… Rotten egalitarianism.

  164. Radical “black” autonomists will DEMAND EVERYTHING…

    Except their own nation…

    A place where “radical autonomy” would have a hard time living.

  165. Nikcrit…

    Your RACE is your father…

    Unless jew.

    Then your RACE is your mother…

    Call Camlost a “rayciss…”

    Means jew a stunted mother fugger.

    Literally, fugg your mothers…

    Into self-annihilating defeat.

    A feet so stink…

    It cleat mud from below.

    Sniff it sweet…

    Tweet replete,

    With pots of twats

    Whence a Rainbow coalition

    Spring their meat.

    It’s magic…

    Jihad Johnson

    Home grown phenomenon.

    Jew trick

    Jew treat

    Hallowed

    Weened…

    Nikcrit seek…

    To peek

    An Absoluteness

    From his stunted scene…

  166. Except their own nation…
    A place where “radical autonomy” would have a hard time living.

    Yes, exactly.

  167. Thor,
    That quip to Cam was a joke, based on the movie trailer clip he posted…..

    also Thor: I agree with Cam’s kudos to you above; that: ‘radical autonomy would have a hard time living,’ remark was succinct and cogent.

    MGE: you’re constantly misresponding, or moreso, only partially responding, to my comments of late.

    Please refrain from responding to me altogetehr until you get-over your recent ‘reactionary-radicalization’ phase; all this silly reductionism of me and my views is getting a tad annoying, dude.

  168. p.s.@Thor:

    So, if you’re saying ‘your race is your father,” then in cases like halfricans such as myself, I’m simply a black male? But in instances where the halfrican has a white father and a black mother, he or she is ‘white?”

    I’m literally asking; that is how i interpret your statement, certainly if you meant as much literally.

  169. I suspect this Jordan Peele movie is just a film embodiment of the Duke Lacrosse case.

    I am sympathetic to the argument that the prison industrial complex perpetuates or amplifies a culture of criminality.

    Policing is also going to get vastly more expensive as the new Obamericans demand more and more scrutiny, review boards, body cameras, training, etc.

    Racial malaise is both existential and spiritual, dude!

    LOL, sure I will not argue. But you know, I really do hate the use of the term “existential” pretty much anywhere. I don’t think it adds anything.

  170. Nikcrit…

    I think you’ve done much here to give credence to the belief that your RACE is “black.”

    But…

    You can choose that for yourself…

    You seemingly possess the matriarchal impulse…

    Perhaps your RACE is your mother? Your RACE is “white.”

    In YOUR CASE, does it make any difference?

  171. To Chuck D’s POINT…

    “White supremacy” CREATES niggers….

    To then be taken down in a redundant re-enactment of the master-slave “dynamic.”

    Only…

    It is THE “BLACK” COLLECTIVE who create niggers SO AS TO PROLIFERATE a police state IN ORDER TO suffocate the freedoms of the white race.

    I spit on you Chuck Deeznuts!!!

  172. Again Nikcrit…

    YOUR race is YOUR FATHER…

    He has to be more than “black,” no?

    Was he not at least a transmitter of knowledge?

  173. I“t is THE “BLACK” COLLECTIVE who create niggers SO AS TO PROLIFERATE a police state IN ORDER TO suffocate the freedoms of the white race.

    I spit on you Chuck Deeznuts!!!”

    You cannot transcend the perceptual limitation of your personal perspective, branding all others (some eminently reasonable) as predatory or oppressive and/or burdensome in some other way. It’s the flipside of the parasitic radical autonomy you otherwise obsess about.

  174. THIS ^^^ IS NOT…

    And actual dismissal of my truth claim that…

    The “black” collective creates niggers so at to proliferate a police state and snuff out white man’s freedom.

  175. It is not even a rejection of my truth claim that Cuck Deez THINKS “white supremacy” creates niggers.

  176. you’re constantly misresponding, or moreso, only partially responding, to my comments of late.

    Please refrain from responding to me altogetehr until you get-over your recent ‘reactionary-radicalization’ phase; all this silly reductionism of me and my views is getting a tad annoying, dude.

    Whaaaaat?

    Maybe I totally misunderstood what you were trying to say.

    You made the argument that the US prison system perpetuates the criminal underclass in the black community, but stated that you remain “open to the issue.” So I therefore advanced the counter-argument that the criminal justice system may have actually helped the black community by removing the most violent offenders among them as evidenced by the corresponding drop in crime. However, I did say that I was sympathetic to your argument, there may be some truth to it. I don’t know enough about it to say with certainty.

    Is that more or less how the exchange went? Where are you interpreting the malice in my comments?

    I like to debate, and you more or less have set yourself up here as a critical voice, so you leave yourself open to it. If you think I have singled you out for harsh treatment, then you haven’t read any of the comments I have made towards thordaddy, whom I won’t even engage with anymore AT ALL. I also made some very critical comments toward “uh,” who seemed to reduce everything to economics.

  177. –Speechless (Camlost)

    I just played that movie trailer. No audio though, my stomach can handle so much. But there was what appeared to be a scene with the Black character trying to get the White girl’s parents to warm up to him, presumably on the weight of his charm and good character. The parents looked like they were wrestling with a dilemma. It’s that 1967 movie all over again.

    There is no dilemma. You have a daughter. She is lovely. And you know what mulattos look like; you’ve seen plenty at Walmart. There is no dilemma. You don’t want to be a grandfather to one.

  178. MGE…

    In a REAL war, “not even [engaging] EQUALS “you are dead.” Clearly, in Nikcrit’s eyes, you have buried your homosexual self, absolutely. In my eyes, nothing could be further from the truth.

    So you are in a chaotic Hegelian dialectic vice with no discernible synthesis.

  179. In other words, Nikcrit sees you completely radicalized…

    Buttjew…

    Have done ZERO IN REPUDIATING radical sexual autonomy, ie., YOURSELF.

    This ^^^ would be radical.

  180. Nothing about Signor Zimmerman’s Nobel Prize?

    I was sure that superfans suburban_elk or peterike would have posted about it by now.

    I defended the honour over on Roosh’s forum, where there were a couple of millennial philistines who seemed resentful that Ayn Rand was never given the award.

    Yes, Obama received one and that obviously cheapens the whole affair.

    Still…

    Iechyd da!

  181. “Nothing about Signor Zimmerman’s Nobel Prize?”

    Literature strikes beyond “bluesy” tunes with a romantic bent. It can be nice highway fuel. So can gas station coffee. A complete fucking embarrassment. No one will care about getting the Nobel after that Dylan-Obama troupe.

  182. EPG,

    Take a moment to go down the list of winners for the Literature Prize.

    Do you honestly think that Dylan is the worst of that lot? His work will endure long after so many of those diversity hires have faded into obscurity. Most have already.

    How much of his music do you even know anyway? Are you a musician?

    L’Chaim!

  183. LOTH, I know most of Dylan’s music, with the exception of the later stuff which I can’t at all tolerate. I work “in the arts,” but am not a musician. Point is, Dylan’s work won’t ‘outlast’ a Henry Miller’s better books, who Dylan once named as his favorite American writer. That said, I’ve had some nice memories with his imitation blues blaring in the background.

  184. “That said, I’ve had some nice memories with his imitation blues blaring in the background.”

    Are you a fan of more authentic blues singers, such as Blind Lemon Jefferson or Sleepy John Estes? I can dig that. Still, Jewish blues is but a slice of Dylan’s overall catalog.

    I used to work for a guy that has one of the top collections of 78 rpm blues records in the world. He even made a documentary about a previously unknown pioneer named Howard “Louie Bluie” Armstrong.

    When I did a road trip through the Deep South half a decade ago I tried to source some valuable old blues records but it seems they’ve been all bought up by Japanese and Euro collectors with deep pockets. Ever heard of Gilles Peterson or DJ Muro?

    Na zdrowie!

  185. “…I tried to source some valuable old blues records but it seems they’ve been all bought up by Japanese and Euro collectors with deep pockets.”

    I’ve noticed something like that too. Worth some trips abroad to top off your collection. There are monumental collectors in Brazil as well.

    Blind Lemon Jefferson – straight outta Texas! I’m still more about Old Charley Patton, the shadow of darkness itself. Only when sipping on something real strong though.

  186. Have you ever seen the Les Blank doc about Lightnin’ Hopkins? That’s some raw as fuck Texas Blues right there. The whole thing used to be on youtube but it looks like it got taken down. Still, there are snippets on there. The whole thing is worth tracking down.

    I did a record buying trip to Brasil back in 2004. If only I knew then what I know now… I still made some nice buys, but I passed up on so much gold because I just didn’t know about it… Talking ’bout grails like Azymuth, Marcos Valle, and Arthur Verocai…

  187. Lightnin’ Hopkins. Raw describes it for sure. Mean stuff from the desert. I’m going through my own stuff and will re-listen to that dark ghost.

    Cheers

  188. Why is the Nobel Prize the gold standard for accomplishment?

    Literature and politics (the peace prize) — those things are impossible to remove from the framework of recent history. Obama gets a peace prize?

    They awarded him at the start of his term, in 2009, so they wanted to shower him with praise and laurels before he had done anything … except transcend white racism and become president?

    What a bunch of cucks! they cheapened it forever, with that move.

    Anyways, literature is not what it used to be. In the 19th century, people had more time for books; that was how they passed the winter evenings.

    Now it is Current Events and History in the Making.

    Dylan and his Prize cannot be separated from recent history, and the 20 century was the jewish century and we are tired of that, and so his accolades are darkened in that shadow.

  189. Back to the Election though.

    The media and all the rest of them — they are trying to Blackpill us into thinking that Hillary is winning the election.

    She is not, of course. The election will be about Turnout, and White people are going to turn out in droves. I registered for the first time in over a decade, and maybe even MN will have a showing for Trump.

    However the problem for us, We the People, is the Electoral College. And it’s a problem not because of the philosophy behind it, but because it is so manipulatable by fraud.

    They only need to commit fraud in a few key states, rather than everywhere.

    The odds of the key big swing states, being manipulated with fraud, have to be 100 per cent. Florida, Ohio, North Carolina. New York?

  190. “we are tired.”

    Elk, you sound low energy.

    I know you love Zimmerman. I love him too. Please tell us why he’s so great and why he deserves this.

    Tell us about Infidels.

    Cent’Anni!

  191. “we are tired.”

    Elk, you sound low energy.

    Bullshit, Lothar.

    You miss the forest for the trees (the tone for the words).

    I have said it before — what is the hit rate on my comments, versus the average. You yourself asked for my opinion, and why would you do that if it is low-energy.

    That would be a contradiction, unless you yourself are seeking something negative.

  192. That criticism of “low energy” — applied to whomever — dovetails into my post at 9:47.

    They are trying to blackpill us into thinking that Hillary will win, and that is that.

    I said it before and again just now — Trump is going to landslide in the popular vote, but the Electoral College is too easy to game.

    I would lay the odds at 3:2 that Hillary will be declared winner AND that will be contingent on fraud.

    That is not defeatist thinking — that is this thing called “strategy” — to anticipate how they are going to try and steamroll this thing.

  193. I asked for your opinion on the Dylan news because I know you and peterike are the biggest Dylan fans on this blog. I said you sounded low energy because it seemed like you were caught up in your own despair rather than taking time to savour Bobby D’s victory.

    I always enjoy reading your comments.

    Have you ever read Shit Magnet by Jim Goad?

    Ci vediamo.

  194. It sounds like a good read. What are the odds they have it at the library?

    Jim Goad would appear to have some self-destructive streaks; which behavior gets in the way of a lot of people these days.

    I like his articles at Takimag, but lately that blog bugs. Their articles are inconsistent, the look-and-feel of the site is awful, and disqus commentary.

  195. “Jim Goad would appear to have some self-destructive streaks; which behavior gets in the way of a lot of people these days……I like his articles at Takimag, ”

    Goad is the poet-laureate Byron-like figure for the Alt-Right’s G.E.D. class and contingent.

  196. “They only need to commit fraud in a few key states, rather than everywhere.

    The odds of the key big swing states, being manipulated with fraud, have to be 100 per cent. Florida, Ohio, North Carolina. New York?”

    elk, how would that explain Trump’s current slump, in which he’s fighting to hold onto key red-meat states like Georgia, Arizona and South Carolina….. South-fuckin’-Carolina!!!

  197. Wow. Just wow. I’m getting the silent treatment from nikcrit.

    Of all the people who spar with him on this forum, I’m the only one who is getting this treatment. Still, I don’t understand why. I am honestly not trying to argue in bad faith or straw-man. I am open to criticism. But since nikcrit won’t respond to me, I ask the host and commentariat: is there anything I have said that is improper, malicious, or in bad faith?

  198. “wow. I’m getting the silent treatment from nikcrit.”

    No! I was just being a bit rhetorical; specificaally, i was irked ‘cuz you were making obvious points that you know I already know to some degree. That, combined with me sensing a bit of overzealousness, the kind found in freshly red-pilled converts.

    I don’t get that truly worked up about anything here; i’ve also coincidentally just been a bit preoccupied to be the ‘big-mouthed- blogger’ I usually am in terms of comment frequency.

    PA is right; you are commentary reason and thoughtfulness personified. 🙂

  199. Most of the music These Days sounds exactly the same, the same sounds are used there is not much originality these days. Growing up I remember the songs I used to hear had a lot more feeling and even if the song was rubbish it’s still had a message behind it. These days I think that most of the people are drugged out so all they want is something to put them in a certain mood I hate to turn up to

  200. Nice discussion. Pop music requires social proof to catch on with teenagers. Or in other words, new music needs to offer the teenage listener entry into a tribe of sorts, with mainstream Top 40 being the least distinguished. There was a time when teenagers focused their excess OCD on the nuances of punk, new wave, goth, and the various subgenres of metal, and it was a constant question among these sorts as to which bands, and which persons, were posers. The music is…if not beside the point…only one of the points. Fandom is signalling: you are in, you are out, you are applying your critical listening skills to display higher value.

    Now that I’m middle aged I record straight onto my phone because technology gets in the way.

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