Pro-White Soundbites for Donald Trump

Presidential debates are stuck on 1992 anachronisms about the economy and on 1980s-era hand-wringing about “inner cities.” White voters go along with those talking points as with ritual incantations to be recited for the sake of good manners. Dead liturgies have their purpose. They keep shut the doors behind which pace the wolves of our survival instincts.

So what can Donald Trump say to connect with things that matter to White Americans? Trump’s goal is to win the election, not to burn out with a swan song. But there may be a time and place he deems fit to push the blade deeper into the Narrative’s bloated gut and communicate that which Suburban_elk captures with eloquent simplicity:

[R]eal concern and real vision, and from the heart, about how white people are suffering for having lost their country, and even more than that, having lost their purpose and their identity; their very soul.

Here are a few of my suggestions for avowing a people that dare not speak its name:

1. Apathy. “I remember when every home in hard-working communities had these pretty flowers in front of it, little American flags lining the street. And these people had pride in their neighbors, in themselves — because they believed that they have a future. And today, they don’t care any more. Why? because they feel that they have lost their country, their public space. Folks, when the people who built America drop out, we are all hurting.”

2. Ethnic Cleansing. “Good people cannot afford to live in their own communities! They watch their aspirations, their work go to ruin when their neighborhoods change character. Their property values are wiped out. I want Americans to have the homes, schools, and families like their grandparents and great-grandparents had.”

3. Despair. “And you know who else is hurting? White Americans. Yes, Whites. Like the families I met in central Florida. They have friends, or even their brothers or sisters, who live with no hope. No appreciation from their leaders. They have watched these beautiful young people fall into methamphetamine addiction. The drug of despair, folks. It never had to be that way. And this is going to change.”

4. Family Formation. “Americans who trace their heritage to Europe do not feel like they can build their own future. I’ve talked with folks in New Jersey, they are afraid to start a family. Or to have a second baby. Schools, affordable neighborhoods for young families are hostile in character. So many young, bright people want to have children but they are choking on their student loans.”

5. Founders’ Posterity. “Listen to me. The only meaningful job of the government is to secure a future for its people and their posterity. It’s right there, in the preamble to our Constitution. That spirit is in the Declaration of Independence and in Abraham Lincoln’s Gettysburg Address.”

6. Guns. “Let’s be frank about something: our Founding Fathers had a good reason to articulate your right to bear arms. My opponent wants is to disarm you. It is tyrannical to take away an American’s right to defend his family from anyone who would threaten the peace of his home.”

7. Immigration. “No, it’s not just about the economy. Or security. It’s about Americans watching the country of their great-grandparents turn ugly, day after day, one administration after another. There are those who say that America is already great. They are lying to your face.”

[Can’t you just hear Trump’s drawn-out, emphatic enunciation in that last sentence?]

“You’re seeing your towns become third world. You know what, folks, Americans no longer see friendly faces. They feel like this isn’t their country any more. And they are right. And they don’t like it one bit.”

[There is so much to be said about immigration]

8. Neighborhoods. “The politicians give you their tired clichés like it’s time to bring communities together. Wrong! Maybe we should take a time-out on togetherness. We have a beautiful diverse America but we get on each other’s nerves. All people need their space.”

9. Neoliberalism. “Very powerful people who run our government and our economy have sold your birthright to the world’s low bidders. Whom they invite here to replace you at work — and guess what: they don’t do half the good job you do. They just work more cheaply and put up with the abuses you wouldn’t accept. And they also drown out your voice at the voting booths.”

10. Our Future. “The American people, the posterity of brave men and women who fought in the War of Independence, who risked everything to settle the frontier and help build this great country. They are vilified. They are not protected. They are told to shut up and pay their taxes. They are being pushed aside — and they are still very patient about it.”

“I want to talk about our future. Many Americans don’t feel like they have one. This is a crime, folks: their heritage is being erased, their history twisted into shrill accusations. And they are good, beautiful, hard working, relentless, creative people. Without them, there is no America. With Donald Trump as your president, you will look forward to the future, just like your ancestors did. Together we will make America great again!”

***

Trump knows. I had a short post in February, titled Reframing Compassion: You Can’t Come Here that pointed to his good instincts. We will no longer surrender this country or its people to the false song of globalism, he said in his foreign policy speech last April. And remember his White Genocide retweet?

Advertisements

82 thoughts on “Pro-White Soundbites for Donald Trump

  1. Mr. Dark Side: eighty eight generals agree!

    Camlost: what is WN? to some it’s cartoon-villain nahzees. To me, it is among other things, political address to White people without hiding behind mealy-mouthed appeals to some vague “middle class” or “soccer moms.” The more things heat up, the more I believe that everyone who isn’t a monster is by default a WN, even if he doesn’t think of himself as one. Can WN be reconciled with citizenism, as many would like it? I don’t know but if that’s a Yes, then by necessity it has to be a very limited, highly qualified Yes.

  2. i Can WN be reconciled with citizenism, as many would like it? I don’t know but if that’s a Yes, then by necessity it has to be a very limited, highly qualified Yes.

    I think they can be reconciled, but either way job #1 is getting the border closed and under control.

  3. Pingback: Pro-White Soundbites for Donald Trump | Reaction Times

  4. Trump’s support is not as white as his detractors would have you believe. Also, some of the biggest neverTrumpers are also the whitest people out there. I think he should stay strong on immigration and try to articulate his ideas. It is a huge and complex topic, but he should not shy away from it because of that.

  5. I told one liberal that Trump doesn’t have much appeal to really Waspy people such as herself. She did not like that.

  6. PA, this is off-topic, but it occurred to me to ask if you had a take on the recent flare-up around Vox’s recent #AltRetard feint. I thought you might have a balanced perspective as a denizen of Vox’s site as well as being WN-leaning.

    It looks to me like people are blowing a minor issue out of proportion. Like, do we really care whether white nations should be ALL white or MOSTLY white, at a time when whites are under existential threat?

  7. It is just beyond belief that the core of the alt-rite CAN HAVE ANY FAITH in ANY MRKN presidential candidate ESPECIALLY ONE with a thirty year, VERY public track record. Hillary may be the long time PUBLIC “servant,” but Trump is even a longer time, VERY PUBLIC FIGURE…

    He is a radical “white” liberationist WHO, like Sarah Palin, DOES RADICAL “white” LIBERATION better than those schmucks to his left. This explains the unrelenting vitriol…

    It also explains the Tebow phenomenon.

  8. — It is just beyond belief that the core of the alt-rite CAN HAVE ANY FAITH in ANY MRKN presidential candidate

    I have plenty of faith in Trump saying the unsayable and in doing so helping many of our people feel that it’s OK to care about their destiny.

  9. — It is just beyond belief that the core of the alt-rite CAN HAVE ANY FAITH in ANY MRKN presidential candidate

    He’s not running for God or messiah. We don’t need him to be the pinnacle of perfection or supremacy or any of that stuff you talk about, we just need him to get elected and close the border.

  10. That’s why all these people pointing out Trump’s faults don’t have much influence on me. I already know these things and I still support him.

  11. — He’s not running for God or messiah. We don’t need him to be the pinnacle of perfection or supremacy or any of that stuff you talk about, we just need him to get elected and close the border. (Camlost)

    This is a really good response to anyone who harps on Trump’s putative flaws.

  12. Pointing out all Bill Clinton’s faults does not change their minds. Pointing out Trump’s faults does not change mine.

  13. Very sensible, PA. I like it.

    I want to tell you goys about some young male analysts in my office sometime. Their attitudes, behaviors, and opinions are painfully beta. I’m trying to get through to them. It’s a challenge, for sure.

  14. A possible immigration point could be:
    How can we have a united country when our government requires Medicare documents in 21 languages? What common purpose can a country have if its citizens can’t even talk to each other?

  15. PA…

    Does this include Trump saying “I love” the “Jews,” and “Mexicans,” and “black” people and the “gay” community?

    Are “we” supposed to miss the incoherency of a broken democracy that just happens to work this one last time IF we only vote for the more suave “white” liberationist?

    IS THIS TANTAMOUNT to pointing out his “faults” and asserting his need to be God-like OR is it just a base analysis?

    “THEY” hate Trump for the same reason they hated Palin… Both just do a cooler and saner version of radical “white” liberation.

    Trump is neither wn nor wS…

    And the media attempt to make it so WITHOUT his saying explicitly one way or the other IS THE SAME OLD SAME OLD…

    And the alt-rite REFUSAL TO PRESS Trump towards wS IS ALSO A GRAND TELL!!!

    THERE IS NO ECONOMIC ALLIANCE between “white” and “black” working and lower class and Trump cannot make it so with his walk and BLM won’t have it either. It’s a catatrophe all around. Separation or annihilation is the end game. Even for the Trumps and Clintons of the world.

  16. PA, I think you’ve taken a page from our friend at 28 Sherman, who may or may not enjoy the occasional phone chat with a fiery friend from our nation’s past, and adapted quite a “pitch” in our nominee’s voice.

    I had to do a double-take to make sure these weren’t quotes from the campaign trail.

    –I was thinking the other day about 1992. H. W. Bush before his fourth and final debate apparently said (literally?) “f**k it” to his debate prep and wound up giving what’s always been regarded as his only win in that set.

    Whatever Trump did or didn’t do in preparation for Mon., I think the Vox Day/Judgeybitch take is persuasive enough. Reminds me, too, of the crapstorm I’ve had to live with for that “Childless. Spinster.” knock-down.

    Though in fairness, I really thought (my cousin) needed it. Well, we’ll see if/when Hillary requires it!

  17. Lucius, 28Sherman’s conversations with Nixon are one of my favorite readings on the internet. He promised a three-way with Reagan after the election. Looking forward to it. Yes, I drafted the soundbites to sound like something Trump would say. Tried to hear his voice, cadence, etc. while reading the draft to get them right in terms of realism. I envisioned him drawing out and emphasizing key words or phrases in each of the soundbites.

  18. It is now in the daily meat space of every White in the West. Our governments have long ago been infiltrated and traitors long ago opened the gates to enemy hordes. The local anesthesia of sportsball for the working classes, and intellectual masturbation over political forms, economic forms, and religious forms for the educated classes, is wearing off. Both groups are slowly regaining consciousness in all but the very nick of time to realize that only one thing matters anymore: the survival of the White race. Without that, none of the former educated pursuits really mean much, now do they?

    We are all watching, and we are all taking note of who exactly is needlessly baiting, gaming, and expending the precious energy of our White brothers via egomaniacal hen-pecking and game-playing. The silent in our ranks watch it with a crystal clear disgust and revulsion that no words after the fact can re-frame or obfuscate. Every ounce of our collective energy and resources must right now be directed into the only mission that matters, and if you are squandering the energy and resources of our brothers over personal or provincial considerations, rest assured that we are ALL taking note of that fact.

    The mature and gifted among us are held to a much higher standard of care in this regard than the young and not so gifted. In this economy the only resource that many of our young brothers have is their passion and will. Intentionally dissipate the former or attempt to break the latter, and we will ALL take note of that fact.

    Those young people’s hearts are not clouded by adult status concerns. All they have to do is look at the other faces in their schools to realize that their future is dark as hell, if they even have one. They may not have the life experience to know exactly how to conduct this fight, but at least they’re fighting.

    Or would you prefer the peers in their cohort?

  19. — but it occurred to me to ask if you had a take on the recent flare-up around Vox’s recent #AltRetard feint. I thought you might have a balanced perspective as a denizen of Vox’s site as well as being WN-leaning. (blizzardofozzz)

    Unfortunately for some reason your comment ended up in the spam folder and I just saw it. I tend to agree with you: people are blowing a minor issue out of proportion. I am not paying too close an attention to this but my understanding is that Vox is responding to attacks he didn’t start. It appears that a truce has been come to, per his post after you had made your comment.

  20. — Those young people’s hearts are not clouded by adult status concerns. All they have to do is look at the other faces in their schools to realize that their future is dark as hell, if they even have one. (trotfox)

    It’s good to remind oneself that “this too shall pass.” The West’s problem is ultimately political. It’s only as dark as we collectively let it become. Like you said, people are waking up. Millennials are largely lost. The generation after them (current teenagers) are a very different in their outlook.

  21. Fans of Vox who refer to themselves as ‘The Ilk’ come across as Gamma with exceptionally low SMV. Pussies who can’t get dates and play D&D–or is it video games now?–all day.

    Alt-West = Alt-Cuck = Alt-Kike

  22. “Alt-West” and all that other stuff seems like a needless hair splitting. It’s 14W at the core. It’s anti-globalism (nationalism for all nations) at its wider ring.

    I enjoy the personalities here (you goys) and a few at CH, but I don’t get into the personal stuff in the wider blog world. As far as I look at things, we’re nationalists, period. “Alt-Right” is the brand name, and a good one, for simply the Right that uncoupled itself from establishment cucks.

  23. I remember that comment: “a play list for firing up the boys before an evening of fisticuffs.” I brainstormed some songs after reading it back then and then it slipped my mind.

    Hope you liked the “Outros” music post since then. I read about synesthesia after someone mentioned it, and it turns out I have it. As Wikipedia put it, people who have it and discover the concept are surprised that it’s even a “thing” and that everyone doesn’t have it, as it seems so unremarkably normal and natural to us.

    As to outros, they are often my favorite part of a song, especially in live versions, a place where the musician does his obligatory verses and choruses and finally gets to do what he really wanted to. As to your question, it’s a broad one. There are tons of hardass songs if you count 80s hard rock, for example. With more contemporary songs, I get fired up by the Foo Fighters.

  24. PS: I play Ministry’s “New World Order” to get into an aggressive mind frame. There is a tricky thing with some rock songs in that while some have the big power chords, they are at their core slackerish and demotivating, such as “Smells Like Teen Spirit”. Or they are so powerful and long that you’re spent after listening to it; for example, Metallica’s “Master of Puppets.” So yeah, that was a good question that merits some thought.

    (please no links YouTube vids if you have such songs in mind. Just artist name + title.)

  25. “Hope you liked the “Outros” music post”

    I did. Very much. I wondered if it was prompted any by my comment. I like a good outro too. Hey, what’s not to like. Also, I sometimes get a slight color synesthesia when a song is particularly strong on emotional content. I always figured that was normal. “That’s why they call it the blues.”

    On the play list, I think the hard part is getting it to cover a range of emotion, like good albums used to do, before MP3s made it so singles took over the world. One can’t just jump in with 12-20 kick ass songs. It’s got to take a person from where ever they might be, into a journey and then back out again. It is like a good wedding DJ does. He watches the crowd, senses what they like and gives it to them without burning them completely out in the first 35 minutes. I’ve always personally thought of Pink Floyd as the level best at that, fwiw. Movie soundtracks can be really good in that regard as well. I think Garden State sets the bar there, at least for this century.

    Best Regards.

  26. Suburban Elks comments made me think if one really got into it, a B-side would be cool too. For when you and the boys get back to the fam cook-out the next day and are enjoying the feeling of a job well done. I think of one of Hollywood’s stereotypical mafia all-ages garden parties, except with fly-over, good old boys. The B-side would be something that The Les Deplorables/Trump song that’s going around ought to fit into.

  27. Some random songs, with the caveat that coming up with playlists ain’t my thing. That’s why I asked the expert. 😉

    A-side:
    Awol Nation, Sail
    White Stripes, Seven Nation Army (glitch mob remix)
    Talking Heads, Burning Down the House
    GnR, Welcome to the Jungle (for when it’s go time)
    House of Pain, Jump (keep fighting)
    Dead Kennedys, Cali Uber Alles (still fighting)
    Black Sabbath, Ironman (?? kind of takes it’s time in places)
    Live, Lightning Crashes (hey, an outros — last, for the ride home)

    B-side:
    Lynyrd Skynyrd, Sweet Home Alabama (trigger warning all you byotches)
    Cat Powers, Dream (we fight for our women and our children)
    Les Miserables, The People Sing (why not)
    Vera Lynn, We’ll Meet Again (not sure, but something undeniably nostalgic seems apt)

  28. “Rocket Queen” by Guns N’ Roses is always the first song that pops into my mind when I think of great rock outros.

    There are several excellent live versions of “Rocket Queen” on You Tube, my favourites being Live TV 1988 and Live in Tokyo.

  29. “…they are so powerful and long that you’re spent after listening to it…”

    GG Allin was the worst in this regard. Nothing noble about it. A razor-sharp composure gets me much more fired up. This can only be attained in classical, for the most part.

  30. “Like you said, people are waking up. Millennials are largely lost. The generation after them (current teenagers) are a very different in their outlook”

    Please define your age borders for each of this generational categories of people (which are comically subjective and forces history into consensual groupthing about “what that decade was like”, but that’s another story.

    Also, I’m getting very irritated at the idea of people coming from 99% white countries to America, which was never a monocultural country, and getting more and more radical about how non-whites have to leave America or be partitioned off.

    There is a multicultural cast of foreign-born dissidents and overall political soothsayers who leave monoracial lands only to come here and make a living out of complaining about what they CHOSE to surround themselves with.

    I understand that live is odd and presents all sorts of ironic and twisting narratives. But what I decry above is AT LEAST as tiring as modern-day civil-rights platitudes, buoyed by ‘white privilege’ and other blood-pressure raising claims of oppression.

  31. Also, I’m getting very irritated at the idea of people coming from 99% white countries to America, which was never a monocultural country, and getting more and more radical about how non-whites have to leave America or be partitioned off.

    Yes, and counting PA that makes exactly one of these people in existence in the USA.

    Meanwhile, we’ve got at least TWO MILLION African immigrants here who come here willingly but are eligible to derive varying degrees of benefit from government programs put in place to rectify “oppression” that never affected them – started with our very own Affirmative Action president who was the son of an East African.

    You’re choking on a gnat but swallowing a camel.

  32. Fans of Vox who refer to themselves as ‘The Ilk’ come across as Gamma with exceptionally low SMV.

    Agreed, but this whole fad of calling *anyone* a “Gamma” has gone nauseatingly much too far.

    I read about synesthesia after someone mentioned it, and it turns out I have it.

    Holy smoke, what a weird phenomenon! So what are you saying, you experience colours with certain sounds, or what?

    As for outros, as a guitar player my favourites are always the ones where the guitarist feels free (as mentioned) to get the verses “over with” and just wail. For some reason a lot of ones from Ozzy come into my head; top of the list might be Randy Rhodes’ outro to “Mother Earth: Revelation.” Also, for horror, of the sort that may await us in a perma-Left dystopia, the outro to “Diary of a Madman”.

  33. — Holy smoke, what a weird phenomenon! So what are you saying, you experience colours with certain sounds, or what?

    It’s stranger than that! it’s flavors, colors, or feeling associated with numbers, for example. But it’s also extremely not-strange, because it is not a hallucination in any way, it’s more like faint free-association. There is also zero OCD quality to it in terms of compulsion or aversion. Again, I thought it is so normal, that it was a surprise to me that everyone doesn’t experience it. It may be common with visual or artistic temperaments. Quite possibly film directors and other multimedia artists instinctively entwine the senses of sight and sound toward evoking an amplified effect when they work with the camera and the film score. “I guess that’s why they call it the Blues,” as Portlander puts it.

  34. Regarding Synesthesia. I had never heard the term before, but have heard of the effect. Apparently Van Gogh had something similar in his apprehension of music. He got in to music at some point in his life, i think he tried to learn the piano or clavichord or something, but was distracted by the colors associated with the various notes.

    Also there is a guy who memorized Pi to 50 million places, a real world Rain Man autist savant, who also was able to attain legitimate fluency in a language in one week, who says in memorizing Pi the numbers would appear as shapes on a line (like on a graph). He wrote an autobiography called Born on a Blue Day, which is about the most boring book in the world, but it got published as a mark of his phenomenal brain accomplishments.

  35. Please define your age borders for each of this generational categories of people (which are comically subjective and forces history into consensual groupthing about “what that decade was like”, but that’s another story.

    “which are comically subjective”

    Having a bad day, Trickin? — what’s the joke?

    Since when is generational divides a difficult concept?

    Or in the alternative — how about nikcrit lays out his concept of how the recent generations divide up. He seems to be suggesting that such categories are arbitrary consensus? and as such do not have meaning in the real world, beyond how that meaning is applied by society?

    Is that what you are suggesting, nikcrit? Then make your case. Do you really think there are no legitimate distinctions between generations. That, for instance, Baby Boomers are not a distinct generation, or Gen X-er’s are not a distinct group with their own characteristics?

    Or at least convey the humor, the “comic” effect of these generational categories.

  36. but I don’t get into the personal stuff in the wider blog world

    Oh but the drama is half the fun.

    I wasn’t going to mention this, but the banned character thwack is over at Kunstler’s blog now (of all places).

    He gets to play the “real black man” amongst the liberal set there, to share his immense beyond-our-ken “black experience” and let them in on it. Everyone wants to be special.

    The topic over there this week is Kunstler’s take on why trash blacks think the cops are out to get them. He suggests via correspondence with a real live black man, that black trash entertain such delusions (that the cops are out to get them) in lieu of having anyone actually give a shit about them. As in, since no one cares about them, since no one wants them around or to have anything to do with them, they create the psychodrama that someone anyone gives enough of a shit to be after them, even tho it be the pil pol.

    Seems like a reasonable interpretation into their paranoia.

  37. As far as generations go, I don’t think that young whites in the millennial or generation Z age brackets are perceiving the ” alt right awakening” to anywhere near the degree that a lot of alt right bloggers think, even in dying places like the rust belt which should be hotbeds for nativist thinking.

    Our youth have been raised on entertainment and they’re entirely too ensconced in social media – especially females. They don’t know how to think or feel for themselves even if they could free themselves from all of the “blank-slater” tripe that they’ve internalized via media, it’s a part of their fiber now.

    That’s why it’s important that a viable anti-immigration politician like Trump has risen here in 2016, at a time where whites are still an overwhelming voting majority and we still have a huge voting block of older whites who can remember a different time.

  38. He suggests via correspondence with a real live black man, that black trash entertain such delusions (that the cops are out to get them) in lieu of having anyone actually give a shit about them.

    The cops ARE out to get them because the cops have the thankless task of trying to make up for the civilization maintenance duties that blacks shirk for themselves.

  39. A country belongs to whoever can claim it and hold it. When I tell people my anti immigration stance, they invariably mention that I am a descendent of immigrants. I just shrug and continue to defend my anti immigration position.

  40. Saying that you should be pro-immigration because you yourself are an immigrant or a descendant is one of liberalism’s most retarded ethics-fails. A guest’s obligation is to his hosts, not to the party crashers that follow.

    And in a less lofty sense, an immigrant moves somewhere with the desire to graft his descendants onto the host’s destiny. It’s an investment with the highest of stakes, so he sure as hell does not want it to go to shit like a Section 8’ted neighborhood where he just bought a house.

    Most immigrants are instinctively inclined to favor the inflow of their own people to the host country. This is logical from the sense of wanting more community support and political power, but not so much if they left their country to escape the dysfunction of their own people to begin with. But immigrants don’t want to see immigrants from other countries.

    I personally am against every kind of immigration. From the perspective of America’s interests as a destination country, we’re full. From the perspective of European countries as prospective immigrants, they don’t have the people to spare.

  41. When I tell people my anti immigration stance, they invariably mention that I am a descendent of immigrants.

    Back in the 80’s this argument was blunted because argued that we already had poor peole to take care of – black Democrats (like Barbara Jordan) argued that we didn’t need immigration because we already have a large underclass that needs better job prospects and doesn’t need to have their wages undercut by new arrivals to the unskilled workforce.

    However, that’s null and void now that the Democrat Party has moved so far left and since Black Leaders are no longer former Business People with real, actual economic experience and understanding, they’re now academic eggheads like Obama who think they’re President of the world and approach everything from an anti-colonialist platform that doesn’t do squat for blacks in the USA.

    The rise of the BLM phenomenon is partly due to blacks realizing that the rapid liberalization of the US isn’t going to do jack crap for them and the train is passing them by – it’s just a temper tantrum. Blacks should be out front demanding a complete stop to unskilled immigration since as workers they tend to be overly concentrated in working class, hourly, service and blue collar professions – or they have large numbers of their youth who get into early legal troubles and find themselves locked out of many career tracks.

    But, as usual, blacks are impractical and easily deluded and can’t see that immigration only decreases the value of labor for those less well-positioned economically.

  42. I love Millennials and get along with them extremely well. I’ve even fucked a couple of them (blonde female) in the last couple of years (ages 19, 20). All of them (female AND male) have daddy issues and they crave masculine authority. I have high hopes for them.

    “Alt-West” and all that other stuff seems like a needless hair splitting.

    Categorization and making lists seem to me to be very masculine tendencies. I get it.

    A lot of what VD does strikes me as an effort to include or appease his less robust readers–i.e. most of them, the low SMV geeks who refer to themselves as “The Ilk” or “The Dread Ilk” or whatever.

    It’s almost as if he’s being held back by this following of chodes.

  43. “the banned character thwack is over at Kunstler’s blog now/i

    I didn’t know Thwack was banned. What was his specific transgression? Or did he keep stepping over the line re. basic blog decorum……. “He a perpetual LINE stepper….!”

  44. Black Sabbath, Ironman

    Not sure if it’s the same album, but it’s one of their first two or three if not THE first, the song “War Pigs,’ which i’d bet “Iron Man” is also on (not a big Sabbath fan, but War Pigs is very interesting and somewhat anomaly to their other song —– that intro, that melancholic early music lilt, yet countered, or you might better say balanced, by that razor-sharp guitar (performed by the best three-fingered chording-hand guitarist in rock history! Jerry Garcia be damned, dammit.

    I couldn’t ever get strong on Sabbath; though i did seee Ozzie during his first solo tour, pre-working days. I like Ozzy the character and persona; he strikes the right balance of humor, irony and balls-to-the-walls wildman then-required of the transgressive white rocker….. I think some of those songs on the first few solo records with Randy Rhodes are great, “Over the Mountain,(?) “I’m Down (here we go, here we go)(?)…. I also saw Ronnie James Dio at some point, (Heaven and Hell), didn’t he do that? “the world is filled with Kings and Queens, who rob your will and steal your dreams, it’s Heaven and HELLLLL!)

    And none of these shows were paid for on the publication’s dime but rather my summer suburban DPW-job wages.

    There you go, Cam; how many negroes on this planet do you think could honestly say that they’ve seen Ozzy Osborne, Black Sabbath and Ronnie James Dio in concert and weren’t working the venue but were there is ;paying fans.

    Though there is a caveat even there; Cam, you might get a kick out of this: for me and my other NAM friends who went to majority white-pop events at times, like, say, the Psychedelic Furs, we’d stand back by the side stage doors and these English roadies and other crew members, so used to seeing nothing but a sea of suburban white teen faces, would let us go back and forth and wander the premises like we worked there, because that is what they were presuming. LOL… I can think of a half-dozen instances where i scammed my way into such club shows while a teen…… shameless.!

  45. “So what are you saying, you experience colours with certain sounds, or what?”

    Hendrix frequently made the same claim and even started working it as a musica idea; he said colors were the motivation for the resulting sounds that prevail in his second studio album, “Axis Bold as Love.” He said numerous times that he wanted to do a sci-fi rock opera and he wanted to a sound-color-coordinated ‘healing’-type concert; in fact, that was part of the premise and inspiration to the ‘movie’ “Rainbow Bridge,’ which, as it turned out, is essentially a halfway decent but poorly recorded outdoor Hendrix concert in a field on the island of Maui, put inbetween what has to be one of the most disjointed, half-assed and incoherent ‘movie’ scripts ever put into production —— even by the standards of the late 60s, in which many-upon-many spaced-out ideas got budgeted and into production.

    “Rainbow Bridge” is on yt in its entirety, but that would be insufferable; better amuse yourself by playing a few short non-concert clips from the film and you’ll immediately get the idea.

  46. Will you ever bring back Thwack?

    I just found him annoying when he kept bragging about being a musician – so the hell what, we can’t hear it on a wordpress forum so stop blabbing about that and his even more absurd claim that “white people can’t understand Jimi Hendrix.”

    Though there is a caveat even there; Cam, you might get a kick out of this: for me and my other NAM friends who went to majority white-pop events at times

    You’re slightly older than me but in the late 80’s we had 3 or 4 black kids in my high school who were well known to be completely into the glam rock/hair band scene, one of them was actually quite popular with virtually everyone. I think the “rebellion” part interested them, as well – this is before rap was played widely on radio.

  47. “Saying that you should be pro-immigration because you yourself are an immigrant or a descendant is one of liberalism’s most retarded ethics-fails. A guest’s obligation is to his hosts, not to the party crashers that follow.”

    Ok, but it’s a bit more complicated than that, isn’t it? And when having a serious discussion about the parameters of what immigration is allowable, if any, it’s not a solely white/European nation, America. Yes, it is in terms of its major creations and ethos—– but the NAMs have earned their sovereignty and, though you (PA) and LGBF deny it adamantly, black Americans have made a profound cultural influence on this country; not in technological or business innovations, but in terms of the arts and populist cultural style; you and millioni other alt-righters inadvertently convey as much every day, in terms of argot, lingo, phrasing, and egalitarian camaraderie (EVEN IF CONSCIOUSLY SPREAD SOLELY AMONG YOU AND YOURS). I don’t want to tangent off into one of those ‘the meta influene of afro-am culture,’ blah-blah.

    But it’s interesting that European intellectuals, blue and red alike, often not that the biggest difference between white americans and white europeans is co-acculturization beside black americans that europeans did not experience. The Euro and American upper-middle-class and elites have noted this for more than a century; it’s white proles and strivers that are desperate to distinguish themselves from blacks and other dusky hordes in the new world (incidentally, many would say poles are the no.1 group among whites to do as much as they were considered the ‘lowest’ white caste among white american immigrants, though certain classes of scots-Irish could probably contend for that title as well.

    whatever, man. I don’t feel like digging down and getting into “one of those’ arguments once again, in which subjectivity and objective history gets into a battle of one’s personal interpretation and personal meeting. But have some flex in how these issues play out among the various subsets that makes universal humanity.

    And then perhaps we should all just shut the fuk up for a bit.

  48. how many negroes on this planet do you think could honestly say that they’ve seen Ozzy Osborne, Black Sabbath and Ronnie James Dio in concert and weren’t working the venue but were there is ;paying fans.

    Bahaha, this strikes me as really funny for some reason. I actually remember going through a phase, it must have been in the mid-90s, I would guess, when I thought it was awesome to see the occasional lone black guy in metal videos. Maybe it was Trickin that I was seeing!

    Truth is, I still think on some level that it would be great for more blacks to appreciate white music, but it seems less possible than ever today.

  49. A fair number of conservatives are willing to give special privileges to African Americans descended from slaves and native Americans provided other groups are not entitled to them. This seems like the type of things African Americans should support. I rarely hear any black politicians talk about this.
    I agree white Americans are different from Europeans. I willing to believe some of that comes from African American influence. How much, I don’t really know.

  50. how many negroes on this planet do you think could honestly say that they’ve seen Ozzy Osborne, Black Sabbath and Ronnie James Dio in concert and weren’t working the venue but were there is ;paying fans.

    You know, a lot more bands in the 70’s and 80’s were multiracial. Many funk bands, synth pop and Euro 80’s pop bands were like that – I’m thinking Sly & Family Stone, Doobbie Brothers and then later Thompson Twins, The System, Simple Minds and such.

    Now if a band features both black and white members it feels very artificial and contrived, like the Black Eyed Peas. And wondering if anybody else remembers this guy who was one of the original launchers of MTV, I’m pretty sure that he was a respected critic, DJ and “album rock” guy all the way and not just some token:

  51. — Will you ever bring back Thwack? (Camlost)

    To his credit, he never tried to come back. But no, I wouldn’t let him comment here again. I didn’t ban him for being annoying. That is what the one-per-day rule for him was for, without which it would not have been possible to have a normal conversation here. FYI, banned peoples’ names are mod triggers.

    — black Americans have made a profound cultural influence on this country; […] in terms of the arts and populist cultural style; you and millioni other alt-righters inadvertently convey as much every day, in terms of argot, lingo, phrasing, and egalitarian camaraderie (Nikcrit)

    So what? Think of the cultural influence blacks got from us. Just because I thought that Redskins’ end zone high-fives back in the 80s were cool or because I like Earth Wind and Fire, it doesn’t mean I support liberal racial politics. From the nationalistic analogy, I like Shakespeare but I still don’t want the English in Eastern Europe.

  52. a lot more bands in the 70’s and 80’s were multiracial.

    Yes, I remember my friends and I giggling in shock when we learned that Thin Lizzy’s singer was black.

    Now if a band features both black and white members it feels very artificial and contrived

    Yes, that’s the sort of thing I’m getting at when I say that it seems less possible than ever. A certain sort of racial harmony used to be possible that isn’t now.

  53. — a lot more bands in the 70’s and 80’s were multiracial.

    Agnostic (blogger) used to write a lot about the outgoing-cocooning cycle as it’s played out over the past 150 years of U.S. history. He pointed to the phenomenon of mixed bands as well. Per his writing, we are now deep into the cocooning phase, which if I recall his argument correctly, started in the early-90s. During the Outgoing phases people are more gregarious, more high-trust, and more open to others, which is inter alia reflected in unselfconscious artistic collaboration among musicians of different races.

  54. black Americans have made a profound cultural influence on this country;

    I’m not singling out only blacks for this criticism, but a lot of what passes for “culture” in this country today is just cheap, throwaway entertainment. It’s quickly forgotten and ridiculed by its former consumers even 5 years later because it amounts to a hollow gimmick.

    I’m hoping that the blatant, liberal politicization of every aspect of entertainment will cause core Americans to draw back from it.

  55. “Now if a band features both black and white members it feels very artificial and contrived”

    to someone like you, who puts his racial politics into his pop preferences; but there are tons of people here who’ve loved, LOVED, black pop from the get-go and they could be racist as hell in other ways.

    You are steadfast in presuming your racial formative experiences are either universal, or if not, when in a more humble mood, an ideal that all these deluded multicultis in terms of openess to pop, just haven’t had enough racial exclusivity to know what they believe —— they need to ‘c’mon home’ so to speak, by your lights.

    that’s your biggest commentary conceit, by the way, IMO of course; you will not respect the power and, subsequently, the considered admissions from those feel otherwise, many of whom agree with your alt-right bona-fides politically. I’ve witnessed your cog-dis when red pill types ‘acknowledge’ or note as much. I’m hesitant to cite certain instances, such as when lara says in a quite lackadaisical manner, that she finds black men more physically attractive than white men, but adds that when she considers the ‘total package’ of opposite-sex attraction, she’s more inclined and seemingly suited to white men, and you at times have literally reinterpreted her own testaments to sate your cog-dis.

    Consider the power of ground-up formative experience, who you’ve interacted with, been exposed to, from the procreative get-go and compare your experience to that of other westerners. the rare times you do, you search painstakingly for a racially exlusive verity —– be it gentic, cultural or theoretical —- and then rest east until the next challenge to YOUR racial orthodoxy.

    I can imagine how you developed the gut feelings racial affinities you did, given the specifics of your formative experience; but you get a bit loopy when returning that same empathy.

    and by the way, many whites would think it’s crazy the way you give such fealty to half-ass grunge bands like Pearl Jam, while dissing black pop, which is often much more skilled or creative or developed or whatever the conceit —— Mike McCready said as much to me in a phoner! (this project —– a multi-cd collection covering every single show of a euro tour in the early 2000s) ‘confirms that we’re a lousy live band,” his words

    But then lets look at a much, much better grunge band, whether in terms of it being a progenitor or just the way it bears its legacy in live performances; here’s the band with its new lead singer.

    https://www.google.com/search?q=alice+in+chains+with+william+duvall&espv=2&biw=1024&bih=676&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjYopmxkbvPAhXGQyYKHZWVBGwQ_AUIBygC#imgrc=jM53O5OtLRpEQM%3A

    Get past that provincial racial hometeam nonsense in terms of music appreication; you’re missing out…

    By the way, since we’ve been talking pop lately, i thought of another band that I somehow luckily got out of having to see, interview or deal with in any elaborate way at all —- the worst fucking white rock band EVER: Supertramp! Lol!!

  56. “So what? Think of the cultural influence blacks got from us”

    I do think of that Euro influence and elaborate upon it all the time. In fact, I think white-west influence is so meta that i don’t even take seriously multikulti counterpunches —– in the grand scheme of time, p.c. is just a over-reactive hiccup in the shadow of the civil rights of the 60s, the second Reconstruction; there’s a certain pbs triteness to that, but i really think it’s true; 50 years of civil rights and p.c. is not that long in contrast to however many centuries of slavery…. though cold comfort to those of us, black and white, living througth all the boisterous conceits that fact brings.

    But, right out of the gate, you’re back into your “Us, us, us, us, us, and them, them, them, them, them….” mode.

    you can’t do it, even in the form of abstract intellectual otherwise; racial dichotomy all the way down; the Nigger of the Narcissus come to life.

    The boy just can’t have it any other way.

  57. Booker T. & the M.G.’s were the first racially integrated band to have a platinum record. From Memphis, Tennessee, one of my favorite American cities. Payne’s in South Memphis has the best BBQ pork sandwich in the world.

    Another integrated band most have probably never heard of was Mandrill. Their track “Fencewalk” is one of the funkiest ever put to wax.

    Forgive my ramblings, as I’ve just spent the day wine tasting in the Russian River Valley. Beautiful country up here. I really dread having to head back to the land of Sodom (SF) tomorrow…

  58. to someone like you, who puts his racial politics into his pop preferences; but there are tons of people here who’ve loved, LOVED, black pop from the get-go and they could be racist as hell in other ways.

    and by the way, many whites would think it’s crazy the way you give such fealty to half-ass grunge bands like Pearl Jam, while dissing black pop, which is often much more skilled or creative or developed or whatever the conceit

    Ummm, if that was directed to me then you have me confused with someone else. I love old R&B, the new rap/soul fusion stuff not so much. I know classic rap like the back of my hand.

    I spend a few hours weekly listening to the “old black people’s” radio station – every city with a sizable black population has one. I’m sure you know what I mean.

    I despise Pearl Jam, I’ve always thought they were bland as hell and I still do.

    And I don’t care what you say, but here in 2016 multiracial musical groups do come off as contrived as compared to the 70’s and 80’s. Sly and the Family Stone was obviously driven primarily by Sly but was interracial and made good music, but a producer-driven outfit like Black Eyed Peas looks like something that was concocted after a tryout at the local mall.

  59. PA…

    Nikcrit is what happens when you let “radical autonomy” stand as the metric. Make your metric wS and you will not be ground down in this meaningless deconstruction.

    “Black” cultural achievement is MOOT by the metric of wS as is white cultural achievement as compared to “black” cultural achievement. Speaking of which, what is a “black” cultural achievement anyway? Race doesn’t matter. “Black”lies gather… “White” libs blather… The anti-racist hates his father. Separation… Holler.

  60. peterike, Cam, et.al.,

    Y’know, since we’re on a music thread, i wanted to make a point that refers to a older conversation and contention that was left unconceded; peterike, and others in various threads, have claimed that bulack blues, soul and pop was over-feted and that whites were the ones who took blues musicianship to another level.

    That alone I would strongly argue against and did, but once you hit, say, 1970-;71, by my lights that argument is weak to outright farcical; while it could be argued that Clapton’s version of “crossroads” was more bombastic yet detailed than Robert Johnson’s and other seminal blues tunes got ‘virtuoized’ more by the English blues lads, can you really say that the Rolling Stones did a better version of “Ain’t to Proud to Beg” than the Temptations? Or that the Beatles’ rendtion of “You Really Got a Hold on Me” puts to shame Smokey Robinson’s? Well, if you ‘really’ do, then shame on you. So perhaps the consensus here is that white and blacks concede superior black singing of those songs, being that they’re borne of that afro-am genre, but that white tribute-but-elaborated-upon guitar renditions were more interesting. (I thought it was interesting when we had this debate awhile back, and peterike made some hard reductive statement along the lines of “the blues is booooring until whitey dresses it up, etc.” I replied by saying ‘tell it to this guy,’ which led to a link of Hendrix playing a smoking live version of “Red House,’ displaying innovate white avant-garde tricks with deeply black masterful delta runs, etc.
    And what was funny is peterike chimed back in by saying: “exactly, once they’re rocked up, blues become much more interesting—— the implication there being that Hendrix was some rrare exception who gets the ‘white pass’ in terms of guitar-god reverence; peterike’s conceit was perfectly in-line with my high-school white friends, who said the same thing back then —— yet one more example of: when whites deeply LIKE some artistic or creative output by blacks, then it’s not ‘black’, but a black ‘acting white.’

    I mean, how convenient is that? and I think that tendency transfers to many other aspects of adoration and respect in the practical world too.

    Here’s a halfrican ID confession that is searing but thereapeutic to share: during times in middle-school and high-school when i felt pangs of halfrican angst and alienation, while playing guitar in bands and at home or wherever, i fantasized i was a hypothetical rock star, with Jimi Hendrix and Keith Richards, two rockers technically before my time but highly influentail to me, as my physical prototype for the kind of rock-idol reveries that almost all american adolescent boys indulge at some point. to this day, i still won’t get sarcastic or reductive about how much Hendrix was a relief to my anxious adolescent psyche and identity. Just to have and be able to CITE that one universally adored icon by white and blacks alike was an outright soul balm at times.

  61. “My Favorite Things.”

    Julie Andrews vs. John Coltrane. Who wore it best?

    “Summertime?”

    Personally, I’m a big fan of the Rolling Stones version of Don Covay’s “Mercy, Mercy.” I wouldn’t say it’s better though. Just different.

  62. I recall peterike’s dismissive comment on the Blues.

    There is that law, that aphorism, i forget its name, penned by an author in regard to science fiction, that 90 per cent of everything is crap.

    So if one is not a fan and doesn’t dig out the good stuff, …

    Black Americans are good at music. It is a cliche and it is true.

    A lot of White Advocates are tired of hearing about it, and in a reactionary mentality, will argue against it.

  63. “Black Americans are good at music. It is a cliche and it is true.”

    This should probably be edited into, Black Americans were good at music.

    These days, they seem completely subsumed into the same shit that is dragging down everybody. Are they involved in anything creative that will stand the test of time?

    Maybe it is “generational” but raps do not strike a chord. They don’t have resonance, they will not last. But for a lot of younger people that is all they know.

    I don’t know enough about rap to criticize it. When it first hit the scene around here was in the 80s, and it was new and innovative and cool.

    But have a listen now to seminal rap such as that 8 Million Stories song in NY City,

    Skyscrapers reach to the Heavens
    but down here we’re livin in Hell
    they look out the window but they just dont see
    the poverty stricken reality!

    Too much, too many people
    too much uh hu hu hu hu!

    Maybe it is a good song, but perhaps it was all downhill from there.

  64. White people grew up “not singing our own songs” — at least not (singing them) in a meaningful way.

    And that little factoid is the perfect little example of The Wasteland.

    It was hard going — hard growing — in a place with no culture, no formalized rites of passage and no blood rituals but those conferred by the jews.

    ***********

    I recall we did sing our own songs — in elementary school.

    That is my Gen-X perspective seeking through, with a glimpse of how it was.

  65. — White people grew up “not singing our own songs” — at least not (singing them) in a meaningful way. (Elk)

    I was at a pub in Lithuania in 2001 and there was a kids’ birthday party in a reserved room off to the side where one of the adults was playing lively songs on an acoustic guitar and singing, and the kids were jumping and dancing around as they do when they have a blast. The music struck me as very folksy Lithuanian, maybe it was their traditional songs. Contrast that with a DJ at a kids’ event here and now playing bassed-up, loud as fuck hopped-up corporate studio noise (don’t ask me how I know).

    You made a memorable observation once that stays in my thoughts in an inarticulate but persistent way, about Mellencamp’s dancing in the “Rain on the Scarecrow” video.

  66. “It was hard going — hard growing — in a place with no culture, no formalized rites of passage and no blood rituals but those conferred by the jews.”

    I don’t mean to complain, by the way.

    That is not what the “new politics” wants or needs, is any complaining (or complainers).

    I look back, during my formative years, on how things were not right. Allowing children — our children — to be formed by the medical community and the public schools, for instance, those being the two biggest culprits, the two biggest institutional forms, that can be pointed to.

    Those patterns of leaving your kids in the hands of strangers, to do with what they will, are blamed on SCALE, and i don’t argue that that is the simplest effective explanation.

    It gets tricky though because SCALE confers competitive advantages, so we seem to be stuck with it, for now.

  67. There is nothing timeless about rap, other than the abundance of sheer passion that some early players like 2Pac, Outkast, and KRS-One brought to that sudden crow carnival.

  68. elk-

    Didn’t know Van Gogh tried his hand on the clavichord. His ‘Letters to Theo’ is one of those books every man should read. He was truly a man “suicided by society,” as Artaud once put it.

  69. “I despise Pearl Jam, I’ve always thought they were bland as hell and I still do.”

    Same here. It’s because they’re American. Americans (with a few exceptions) can’t write a proper melody if their life depended on it. I basically wrote off the 90s musically.

  70. “…..playing bassed-up, loud as fuck hopped-up corporate studio noise…..”

    That tended to be my reflective reaction to rap and other rap-ized R&B pop of hte last few years. But being constantly surrounded by it in up-to-my-neck levels, slowly —— and surprisingly!—— I began to form context and critical backdrop and….yes….. slowly developed appreciation for it.

    I think I know why we, meaning guys of our generation, resist it —– I mean, resist it even beyond the natural resistance we should have toward it as mature men listening to a crass and juvenile form of lyrics and musical bombast, etc.: It’s that technological shift generational effect again.

    Meaning, elk is right in a literal way even though he meant it somewhat metaphorically in his criticisms of rap above: it’s a new and thus somewhat alienating art form, what these ‘rappers’ or more succinctly ‘rap producers’ are doing. think about it: we came up with and take for meta-granted pop music as some ineffable combination of bass, drums, keyboard and guitars, etc.; but that is not true anymore; to some of the kids i see on a daily basis, when speaking of those modern-rock staples of sound, I might as well be talking about lyres and flutes!

    No, today it’s all about post-production in distinguishing ‘your sound,’ your ‘song.’ As for the instruments, the field of interaction there has gone far beyond strings and animal-skin produced beats, with sampling allowing any ‘sampled’ noise to moderated to pitch, key and tempo. It’s very alienating to older generations; i wouldn’t know how to properly criticize such music because there’s yet to develop a critically verbal vocabulary to capture all the pop-zeitgeist production tools of the 21st-century.

    So, when Sub_elk says ” I don’t know enough about rap to criticize it,” I can respect his equipoise and know where he’s coming from. And that’s especially hard for guys like me and him, whose pop obsolesence is in play for both are playing music and our APPRECIATING modern music.

  71. So, when Sub_elk says ” I don’t know enough about rap to criticize it,”

    There’s a huge difference in true cultural quality between the earliest generation of rappers and those that came later.

    People forget that early rap was rejected by mainstream black music for quite a long time and got zero radio airplay. The earliest rappers had to create a market and actually perform on underground circuits in tireless fashion. Now, Hip Hop consists of idiots like Drake who go from the Mickey Mouse club to throwing out highly commercialized lyrics while supported by a vast team of producers and collaborators.

  72. “t’s stranger than that! it’s flavors, colors, or feeling associated with numbers, for example. But it’s also extremely not-strange, because it is not a hallucination in any way, it’s more like faint free-association. “

    Jimi Hendrix in interviews described in detail being possessed of a very similarr color-to-music mind meld; he even broached the subject in the movie he appeared in, “Rainbow Bridge” a concert film sandwiched between a nearly incomprehensible dippy hippy story and narrative.

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s