“The Internationale,” a North Korean Performance

Soviet communism had stirring anthems like “The Internationale” and the USSR national anthem, both of which made your hair stand up when performed by the Red Army Choir. American communism has Beyoncé. Reader Suburban_elk perceptively captures the essence of our own communism as embodied in the dread-and-circuses ideological rally featuring a synthetic Black woman’s cocksure strut:

Beyonce came over as UGLY evil thing who struts around her vagina – literally her vagina and big butt lead the way and she follows it around, and she has that evil hard demonic face.

There is no reference to “the People’s mighty hand” in Beyoncé’s songs.

There are still countries that openly call their system of rule “Communist,” most prominently among them the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea. Below is a video of their military choir performing “The Internationale” in the Hangul (Korean) language.

My aesthetic sense resonates like a tuning fork hitting a pure note when I see national particularism emerge from under the blanket of universalist systems. Sometimes—such as in this case—even when those national forms are not my own. The performance below expresses aspects of the Korean identity, buried as it is under those Soviet-style uniforms and that old French melody, most essentially in the ethnically-coherent formations of purely Korean faces. Another nod to Korean sensibilities is the overlay of their much-beloved teeny-pop synth sounds over the majestic bars of the hymn.

A denunciation of DPRK’s abuses of her own people would be outside of the scope of this post. Similarly, a hypothetical blog post that revels in American line dancing should not be expected to also denounce the ethnic cleansing of Detroit and the ongoing dispossessions.

Update: see realgaryseven in the comments for additional perspective on North Korea.

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65 thoughts on ““The Internationale,” a North Korean Performance

  1. There is no reference to “the People’s mighty hand” in Beyoncé’s songs.

    Do those other music groups work in a environment in which their work is commercially competitive and driven by a LCD economic market?

    I’ll defer on this, as i’m hardly expert on eastern-European and N. Korean pop markets, but I would keep in mind that Beyonce the private citizen is very, very possibly as disenchanted with the pop product she creates as much as you or I are; often, they look at their work the way a successful day trader looks at his: as a strategy to be read the wants and impulses of a economically engaged market.

    Even if you accept that, that doens’t change much of your point in this post —— but it does perhaps change where you’d place the responsibility for the cultural denouement part of your post.

  2. that North Korean military orchestra vid is intriguing but i don’t see a lick of Asian ethnic identity in the music; in fact, I see what i often saw as the most consistent asian music trait: ruthless, note-for-note appropriation and assimilation…… It’s sad, but Asians, specifically Japanese and Koreans, are about the only people left who carry the torch and tradition of western classical music, past and present repertoire.

  3. “The People’s mighty hand” is a line from the WWII-era version of the Soviet anthem lyrics. Laibach used that line memorably in their song about Communism’s collapse “Slovenia.” Here I just used it as a wry aside, nothing more, re. Beyoncés output being our version of the USSR anthem. Eastern Europe had plenty of fun-to-schlocky pop artists in the 60s/70s. My recollections from the 70s include the Russian Alla Pugacheva (“Vsio mogut karoli”). The more enduring lighter-side pop music talent in Poland included Czeslaw Niemen, who had a jazzy/hippie style and Maryla Rodowicz, whose range covered folk-style festive songs to serious adult-themed contemplations.

  4. Nostalgia lane: I watched this very 1978 performance on live TV in Poland. This was an annual Soviet Block pop music contest in Sopot, Poland. The performer is Russian Alla Pugacheva performing at that competition, who adults around me sneered at similar to how we do now at Beyoncé, but the character of official festivity is so different between then and now:

  5. Well, here’s a taste of OUR 1978 counterpart to Alla Pugacheva —– the rep for the west’s zeitgeist (actually, I’d say it was a tie that year between Summer and Linda Ronstandt; even if you go to their respective cumulative career power, it’s pretty much a draw in trying to determine ‘who was more influential.” ….. So just say I went ahead and pulled for hte racial hometeam this time…lolz.

    Actually, 1978 was a pivotal year for western pop culture and aeshetics; while punk and rap had technically begun a year or two earlier, ’78 was the year they entered the zeitgeist as a vanguard force; the Rolling Stones’ comeback masterpiece “Some Girls” debuted, as did the near-demise of New York city under Ed Koch, which inspired the GOP-in-NY-Renaissance led by Giulani a few years later….. In mythology, ’78 was the year the eventual 80s forces and icons first made a big impression.

  6. I’ll defer on this, as i’m hardly expert on eastern-European and N. Korean pop markets, but I would keep in mind that Beyonce the private citizen is very, very possibly as disenchanted with the pop product she creates as much as you or I are;

    Don’t know if I’m reading you correctly on this, and you surely know music better than I do. But I’d consider Beyonce to be the very essence of today’s producer-driven, artistry-deficient masspop commercialism. You think she’d rather go back to a smaller, pre-video American music scene where she actually had to tour small venues, build a following, learn to play instruments and actually write her own songs? (they say Beyonce forces all of her writers to credit her as a writer also even when she contributes nothing).

    In the 70’s-90’s Beyonce would be just another R&B singer in a deep national lineup of soul performers, many of whom never got the credit they damn well deserved for the groundwork they laid for today’s black music industry and pop landscape.

    I mean, if she can perform lyrics like this without shame:


    Who run the world? Girls! [x12]

    It’s hot up in here
    DJ don’t be scared to run this, run this back
    I’m reppin’ for the girls who taking over the world
    Help me raise a glass for the college grads

    41 rollin’ to let you know what time it is, check
    You can’t hold me (you can’t hold me)
    I work my 9 to 5, better cut my check
    This goes out to all the women getting it in,

  7. But I’d consider Beyonce to be the very essence of today’s producer-driven, artistry-deficient masspop commercialism.

    I do too.
    However, my point is perhaps a simple-yet-perplexing one: One thing that surprised as i got involved, but only grew more steadily true: the bigger a performer got, the more detached that star becomes from said star’s public persona —– be it in personal bio bits offered, material performed, or public actions onstage or offstage… There are probably lots of reasons why that is; y’all could accurately guess as much as well. But it’s surprising to see just how hardline and consistently true that is —- the divide between a performer’s public and private persona; i’ve actually had entertainers in interviews quickly speak of their performing self as an entirely separate entity in terms of both performing and private beliefs and morality; their public self is more like a 21st-century avatar than a connected living and breathing ‘being’ that’s essential to one’s ‘self.’

  8. However, my point is perhaps a simple-yet-perplexing one: One thing that surprised as i got involved, but only grew more steadily true: the bigger a performer got, the more detached that star becomes from said star’s public persona

    Maybe exhibit A for this would be when Prince withdrew himself into a shell some years back and removed himself from the flow of mainstream pop and celebrity to focus on real music that is near and dear to him. When he tours now a lot of people are surprised when he jumps up with a guitar and plays homemade blues concoctions, leaving his pop classics until the end of the show.

    If he so desired he could’ve ruled this current American music landscape by bastardizing his music to fit trends and by performing with rappers and any “hot” pop star of the day, but he doesn’t even like for his music to be sampled.

  9. “When he tours now a lot of people are surprised when he jumps up with a guitar and plays homemade blues concoctions, leaving his pop classics until the end of the show.”

    Yeah! I noticed when he did that extended spot on SNL a couple or so years ago, it was almost like some early 80s Parliament/Funkadelic excursion in the sense that he was doing minute-long guitar and synthesizer solos on a live television spot! He’s also somewhat relinquished some of his sexually risque onstage appearance, which is probably wise for a pop star now solidly in his 50s; i recall seeing that guy in the 80s when i was a teenager playing in little more than leggings and panties, no exaggeration!…

    Anyhow, there are very, very few current rap or R&B figures who could even play guitar or any instrument for that matter; also, Prince’s audience is now on average somwhere between his age and 30, so it’s not a dicey gambit for him to include more historically representationl. onstage repertoire.

    I would damn-near bet that some of today’s rappers and r&b singers wouldn’t even recognize a guitar upon seeing one..

  10. “(they say Beyonce forces all of her writers to credit her as a writer also even when she contributes nothing).”

    That’s fairly standard in the case of a established star commissioning a songwriter, particular songwriters who’ve yet to create too much of a name for themself.

    The reasoning is that the star is better-off paying a single-fee for the services of that song and not having to cipher off any possible future broadcast and sales royalties because, if the song in question DOES end up doing exceptionally well, it was most likely due to the established persona of the star who sung it versus the unknown writer who penned it. Of course, there are cases where the opposite is true, though by nature it’s much harder to prove as much. And either way, it’s less likely to be turned around upfront because, as in many industries, you somewhat have to pay your dues and be exploited before you ever even GET YOUR CHANCE to have a lopsided payday.

    I forget some of the details but at one point even did some reporting on the fact that much of hte Motown canon of vintage gold was penned and performed by people whose names are all but unknown.

  11. “There are still countries that openly call their system of rule “Communist,” most prominently among them the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea.”

    May I offer some perspective based on first hand experiences in the DPRK? The Korean Communist Party was disbanded in the 1930s and never resurrected. The Workers Party of Korea was formed 70 years ago and is the ruling party to this day. Some words and concepts don’t translate well between different cultures and languages, and “communist” may be one of them in this context. In what is now the DPRK, “communist” seemed to have meant something more like “other groups that are also fighting the Japanese with Soviet assistance” than actual Marxism-Leninism. In fact, the DPRK dropped all references to “communism” in 1971, and has subsequently removed all references to Marxism-Leninism– which is now referred to as “previous theory”– from the Constitution and other laws.

    Having been to the DPRK many times times in recent years (for work, not as a tourist), I can say that the country is certainly not at all like it is portrayed to us in our media. In fact, it was my experiences there that woke me up to the lies of progressivism. I am a hard core reactionary precisely because of my experiences in DPRK. The Cathedral desperately needs the DPRK as a bogeyman. If DPRK did not exist, the Cathedral would have to manufacture one, which is kind of what it has done with its portrayals of the place. I find it fascinating that the DPRK is one of only a handful of countries that are not participants in the World Bank. That may explain the deep involvement of Eskimos in the PR and media industries in portraying the country. Yes, the country is quite poor and they had a famine in the 1990s. But it was not something the political leadership intended. There have been cyclical famines in that part of Asia throughout history.

    DPRK strikes me as more right-wing than left-wing, despite the Soviet-style uniforms and pop culture. It operates according to some very strict and clear principles, there is ethnic homogeneity and public order and a concomitant high level of trust, etc. In his autobiography, Kim Il Sung spends page after page and chapter after chapter warning against the dangers of Leftism and how the nation must always be vigilant against it.

    And yet, North Korean pop culture definitely has Soviet artistic influences, no doubt.

  12. That is an interesting comment from realgaryseven regarding North Korea.

    It seems reasonable to regard its standard portrayal, here in the West, with some suspicion, considering how they, the (((media and the government propaganda))) slant things. See for example Russia. Some one taking them at their word on that country would think it is the Evil Empire.

    But in the case of North Korea, what do the South Koreans think of it? Their opinions are going to be biased in a very particular way, and negative reviews from them might have nothing to do with anything that Westerners can understand. Certainly the North is poorer and more rural, and regarded as provincial and backwards – but beyond that, how do the South Koreans think of the political system in place up there. They are embarrassed by it, perhaps, because it looks to world to be some superstitious stuff from the dim archaic past where they worship their ancestors in the form of a living god?

    The particular point about famines occurring periodically in that part of the world makes a lot of sense.

    They have gotten a lot of heat for their Prison Camps. There is a sockumentary on netflix called Camp 14: Total Control Zone (2012) and this is a critically acclaimed film and i give it a thumbs up.

    It looks pretty brutal. First hand accounts of inmates having to watch the executions of the family members, for instance. Guards raping inmates, and then when they get pregnant, beating them to death so that they are not caught out.

    Now prison is by its nature brutal, and with the exception of Scandinavia it is an unpleasant experience, wherever in the world. The prisons here subject people to torture and abuse, and i am not taking a naive view of it. But still, maybe they are a little bit too over the top in their persecution of dissidence. Though i acknowledge in advance that dissidents in the US are also persecuted and tortured.

  13. You don’t wanna go there, Nikcrit. East Asians’ casual feelings about Blacks are not flattering. Dennis Rodman is not “magic negro.” He’s a flashy and interesting foreign public figure making a formal visit to another country. Geez. you’re reaching there.

    By the way, Rodman comes off thoughtful and reasonable in that interview.

  14. North Koreans weird ass cult worship of their stand-in for a Sun God, has to be suspect.

    There is something to be said about all that. They are venerating their ancestors, and then the politics gets ahold of that disposition of theirs and it gets corrupted into what it is.

    The good the bad and the ugly. The good is their traditionalist nature, and the bad is politics and the ugly is what’s-his-name.

  15. In the same way that our traditions and good nature is used against us.

    George Bush and Bill Clinton?! – good god why have you abandoned us to these monsters.

    It is not exactly esoteric to know that public leaders have … usurped the traditional role that they once had, that they once earned, which was as a leader and a father figure. But Lindsey Graham is no father figure, and neither is Obama, nor any of them.

    In the same way, the Great Leader of the People’s Republic is probably regarded with some skepticism.

    It is interesting to try and consider, and to re-consider, NK. Why is it that NK is the one bad guy rogue state that is more beyond the pale than the others. Beyond the pale in everyone’s reckoning, it seems, at least in popular and conventional political opinion.

    That simple fact alone – that they are bad guys who have NO friends – gives pause.

    Why don’t they have any friends? In realpolitik, beyond what gets served to us plebs, there must be more to the story. But as far as the mainstream, NK is bad and that is all there is to it.

  16. “It is interesting to try and consider, and to re-consider, NK. Why is it that NK is the one bad guy rogue state that is more beyond the pale than the others. Beyond the pale in everyone’s reckoning, it seems, at least in popular and conventional political opinion.”

    That is basically the same argument that Mr. Rodman puts forth; from the linked article above:

    “DJ: Have you ever seen anything alarming in your time there?
    DR: It’s just like any other country, you go to Russia, Germany, you’re gonna see soldiers all over the place. You see soldiers that carry guns and sit at the airports. It’s just like that.
    DJ: But the difference is that in North Korea there are hundreds of thousands of people suffering and starving in labor camps.
    DR: You name any country in the world… Which country does not have that shit? Every country has that. “

  17. “I find it fascinating that the DPRK is one of only a handful of countries that are not participants in the World Bank.”

    Neither is Syria. And look what happened there. Such a coincidence! Oi vey!

  18. You don’t wanna go there, Nikcrit. East Asians’ casual feelings about Blacks are not flattering. Dennis Rodman is not “magic negro.”

    LMAO, c’mon Trickin’. From a banana to a zebra, you know better than this. Asians may run about breakdancing and buying Air Jordans from 1998, but when the rubber meats the road they have ZERO respect for those that can’t make progress and handle their own sh** (for lack of a better term) in an orderly society. And they’re not giving up a dime of their own money, their Democratic support in the USA only lasts until they realize that white folks aren’t footing the bill anymore.

  19. “I find it fascinating that the DPRK is one of only a handful of countries that are not participants in the World Bank.”

    I doubt that either would meet (or even desire to meet) the fiscal transparency requirements required by the World Bank for membership. They don’t just start sending you checks at casual request.

  20. O.T.@peterike,
    Hey peterike, I wondered if you had any response to my ‘Sacrilege of the week’ post back in the “BBC bans a photo” post that compared some old-school rappers to your Sprechtine German yodeler? I was hoping you’d get a kick out of that…

  21. Neither is Syria. And look what happened there. Such a coincidence! Oi vey!

    Fifteen years ago they had Belarus in their crosshairs as well. Much more recently, John McCain called Viktor Orban a fascist dictator. And a few days ago, he and two Democratic senators wrote an aggressive letter to Poland’s president Beata Szydlo, expressing their displeasure with what they call “threats to democracy.”

    Szydlo wrote back diplomatically, but with a subtext that it’s creepy to have one county’s senator take so much interest in another country’s domestic processes. I use “creepy” liberally because Szydlo is a woman, therefore it’s not out of place to read that tone into her letter of response. The letter was otherwise diplomatic and charming (again, female writer) as one would expect per international protocol.

    It’s starting to become very evident that if Trump is not our next president, massive wars and an annihilation of Europe and America is in the cards.

  22. Rodman was always a character, and notoriety is his MO. With what could he top his NBA career and Madonna. If you thought he was going to slurk off into the night like some ghetto loser and die in a crack shack, … well surprise surprise, he answered a want ad for Celebrity Liaison to the People’s Republic and is doing splendid in his new position.

    I have seen him interviewed here and there regarding that, and his persona is impressive. He is very calm and level-headed, and the contrast with his appearance creates an effect.

    In Chinese folklore, and i would guess this extends across much of Asia, a remarkable or gifted person has a tell in his looks, so Rodman meets that requirement.

  23. if Trump is not our next president

    South Caroline is coming up and a lot is riding on that, but let us keep in mind that the Northern Mariana Islands caucus (R) is not until March 15.

    This whole election system is all quaint and good fun, but what a pain in the ass.

    If Trump does not win … the whole thing is spinning out of control. They, as in “they”, cannot contain the resentment and bad feelings that are swept over the land. The popular uprising is like the erection in the night that the old man still gets, and the young man always has, and the middle man takes for granted, and it’s not going away. It is very large and powerful and if it doesn’t get a chance to represent, well then something else is going to happen. It can’t beat itself up anymore. Something has happened where people just know what a screwjob.

    In my opinion the smart thing for “them” to do would be to work with Trump and try to co-opt and corral him, but they seem not to be doing that, at this point yet anyways.

  24. It’s starting to become very evident that if Trump is not our next president, massive wars and an annihilation of Europe and America is in the cards.

    What makes you believe that Trump is even cognizant of the kind of diplomatic obsessions and outrages that you claim in the comment of your I cite?
    Or are you suggesting that Trump’s defense policy alone is enough to prevent such a fate, even if he doesn’t see where it comes from?

  25. Check out the new non-official Trump campaign video slogan.

    It features the 80s classic by Twisted Sister, We’re Not Gonna Take It,

    Your life is trite and jaded
    boring and confiscated
    If that’s your best
    your best won’t do!

    I referenced a New Yorker article in a comment on another thread, which article was mocking Trump’s campaign for featuring this song: “Omg, Twisted Sister, what is this high school?”

    But those lyrics are good, very direct and even poignant.

    And maybe before listening that snobby condescending attitude might have crossed my mind – Twisted Sister? – but can’t we pump our fists in the air and go arrgghhh!

    They are going to have to kill us all, before this is over.

  26. “They are going to have to kill us all, before this is over.”

    I’m finishing a long post on a related subject. I like that line– will use it.

  27. Of course the USG needs bogeymen, but I don’t buy for a moment this notion that DPRK is “not as bad as it sounds”, not without a lot more substantiation and/or examples. Who travels there for “work”, anyway?

  28. Political order in this world in by its nature a system of control.

    And so parsing countries into good and bad, in some moral sense, is dubious. All countries in this world are managing their human resources.

    In the United States, consider the hypothetical: somebody can be convicted of a felony crime for using the common roadways under the influence of alcohol, and not having harmed anyone, and be put in prison and get raped by gangs. I don’t know how often that particular hypothetical transpires, but something similar and more likely can easily enough be construed.

    But gang rape in prison, is torture. Solitary confinement is construed by some, and i would agree, as torture.

    Americans can’t do business without having to give half their money to a government that works against them, unless they work around the laws, in which case they are at risk for persecution.

    All that said, certainly North Korea is a grim and dreary place, but how much of that grimness and dreariness can be assigned to its particular politics and regime, and how much to the global situation that is oppressing everyone?

    North Korea has a reactionary stance. We are all going to be suffering in one way or another, from faceless and high-handed systems that express themselves at our direct expense.

    North Korea politics needs to be placed in the context of globalism. Their isolation stance is a reaction to the larger global regime.

    It is a globalist regime, and its principle power is in the banks and their issue of credit to governments.

    North Korea’s human rights abuses are no doubt very real. As an example see my comment above mentioning that film Camp 14. I wanted to clarify in that comment, the incidents of the camp guards getting the women prisoners pregnant. I described it as “rape” and it technically would be given the power discrepancy between the criminal and victim, and that shade of meaning within the law is somewhat contentious and open to misuse, though as a relevant factor generally, it is valid. But the sexual abuse portrayed in the film was not violent (beyond sex per usual) but cooperative to the extent possible under the circumstances.

    The guards would essentially take concubines for long term relations, in exchange for special treatment. But then if the woman pregnant, she might get beat to death. And so the abuse played out along those lines seems even more inhuman.

  29. Rodman was always a character, and notoriety is his MO. With what could he top his NBA career and Madonna.

    Actually, Rodman was quite a nondescript NBA player for nearly a decade. NBA hall-of-famer Karl Malone said something to the effect that “yeah, he’s wearing dresses and nose rings now but I knew him when he wore a cowboy hat and boots and was happy driving an old beat up truck through Oklahoma.”

    What happened is that Rodman put up all star numbers for a long time, but got ZERO notoriety because he didn’t score much and did the dirty, ugly work of rebounding and playing defense. Coaches absolutely LOVED his worth ethic and team-first attitude in a league where a lot of players just want the glamour job of scoring 25 points a night. But then he started dying his hair and realized that making himself a spectacle would play well in the media…

  30. You don’t wanna go there, Nikcrit. East Asians’ casual feelings about Blacks are not flattering

    I don’t think I have any illusions; in fact, i don’t have any preconceptions, period, really. I’ve never stepped foot in an Asian, for work or play. I personally know blacks who have, in the military and in middle-of-the-road entertainment-industry roles, which may not be a good rep of the norm, etc. And then I’ve known of NAMs who’ve vacationed in Bangkok, which again, I’d guess isn’t a real good measure to consult.

    I’ve been to Hawaii; and from my cheerily naive perspective, i’ve sort-of thought of that being an Asian state…IDK, one nice facet of getting older is not having to worry so much about how personally ‘accepted’ I am in a given place; nowadays THEY exist to amuse ME. At this point in the game, I’m my own sovereign state! Lol!!

  31. If you wore a Kobe Bryant jersey around around Hong Kong you’d probably get inundated with selfie requests.

    Did anyone else read this post-Ferguson article by that idiot Fareed Zakaria on how the US could have better racial relations by looking to the example of multicultural Singapore:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/from-singapore-lessons-in-harmony-and-diversity/2015/06/25/86fcbfa2-1b72-11e5-93b7-5eddc056ad8a_story.html

    Once I stopped laughing I sent it to a few friends, and most of them just gave the standard PC platitudes about yes, we need “inclusiveness” like that and all of that jazz. Then I asked if they were aware of Singapore’s strict legal system – caning or heavy fines for jaywalking, littering, loitering and mandatory death penalty for kidnapping, murder or drug trafficking (with about 350 executions per decade for only 1 city). And public schools are ruled with an iron fist, too. Also, Singapore doesn’t accept welfare cases, any unskilled guest workers are not only barred from citizenship but also immediately deported if they have a baby.

    My favorite line from that article is: “How did Singapore do it? By mandating ethnic diversity in all of its neighborhoods.” << !!!!

    In their own countries Asians (and Middle Easterners) don’t suffer any habitual non-conformism from the Michael Browns and Freddie Grays of the world, they just crack heads open and leave you in the street…

  32. @cam, et. al,

    You had mentioned Beyonce yesterday; I just came across this. Sorry if it’s old news, but it sort-of fits the topic in re. the tangent re. black-pop influence on the msm and other broader memes….

    fwiw, I think this stuff is ridiculous —– for one, because it’s demeaning to those i truly am not inclined to demean; and, two: it seems to me that stuff like this will ultimately preclude to some kind of eventual backlash, which again would be detrimental to me and not what I deserve,Most of all, where does this impulse for such parody come from? I truly don’t know.

  33. That is a good topical video nikcrit.

    Those writers at SNL don’t know when to quit. They are beating a dead horse, and to what effect. Who thinks that stuff is funny, at this point?

    “Oh look how stupid white people are, to take offense at Beyonce and her righteous act.” That is the required pretext to the joke.

    Is it funny or not. Funny in the real sense – is it good for a laugh. It fails with me, but i am not their target audience.

    It seems to me weak and anemic. Not to mention offensive. I am sick and tired of those jokes.

  34. Most of all, where does this impulse for such parody come from? I truly don’t know.

    Ya know, I try not to say anything bad about SNL because they are a comedic institution. But, that’s a little infantile and hackneyed for 2016 and it’s disconcerting if they still consider that “edgy” at this point. Maybe 20 years ago that could’ve been funny if In Living Color would’ve done it.

    An “edgy” skit from SNL today would be them doing a skit on Beyonce’s skin lightening, LOL.

    For black-oriented humor I’d rather just watch old Youtubes of “Comic View.”

  35. Most of all, where does this impulse for such parody come from? I truly don’t know.

    The short answer is that liberalism is a mental illness. The long answer is that … people lose their will to live, and their will to succeed, their will to power, and instead take to mocking themselves because it is easier.

    But that is not the real answer either. People don’t lose what they never had to begin with. Prosperous living conditions leads to weak people having to amuse themselves before they die.

  36. The short answer is that liberalism is a mental illness.

    Yes.

    With the exception of Colin Quinn and Adam Sandler, I don’t think I’ve seen a modern SNL cast member who wasn’t assembly-line Dem boiler-plate liberal. Several of them are nice enough to have a sense of humor and balance about their liberalism, at least.

    But let me get this straight – for the last 10 years Beyonce has been shaking her rump, singing about single motherhood, man stealin’, baby momma drama, her sexual prowess and her booty… but we somehow didn’t know she was black? And we didn’t know that she was black prior to this because she was obviously somehow restrained in her expression? And we somehow weren’t already aware that 95% of blacks voted for the same leader, the one that whipped domestic politics into a frenzy after Ferguson, Baltimore and BLM, just a few years after the avalanche of black celebrities and politicians who got on twitter to don hoodies for Travyon?

    Seriously, there’s just no punchline there anymore, it’s not 1956, she’s not Nat King Cole and it’s been quite a while since black celebrities had to conduct themselves in some sanitized, white-reassuring way repeating innocuous, smiling pleasantries like a railcar porter.

    That skit was just a pathetic attempt at shaming white America for being on the wrong side of an issue with their “bitter clinging” to law-and-order politics.

  37. Elk…

    What I was hoping was that you would have come back to say, “No, what I really meant was that heterosexual white males are routinely gang raped by FAGGOT NIGGERS, in fact… And a lot of filthy “white” pigs JUST MUST BE looking the other way. And of course, because “we” are speaking of “white criminals” then those of “us” on the outside fashioning ourselves wn can easily feign blindness to this truly sadistic racial-hate phenomenon. Now ponder the few relevant reversals? Ponder a predominantly “white” prison with a minority “black” population and then in the position of authority are either what we have now or an dominant “black” authority? Would there be this diabolical silence FROM “white” nationalists of all individuals? What of the “white” liberals? What would they make of faggot “honkeys” gang raping niggers to no institutional outcry and absolute public silence?

  38. Which brings us back to Rodman and his attempt to equate MRKN prisons to DPRK prisons in regard to the acceptability of torture within the two prison systems. BUT THIS IS ALL PREDICATED on a MRKN public EITHER completely ignorant or wholly indifferent to the accepted torture of white males by gangs of faggot niggers. This is, in fact, the desired fate of any ambitious wS in the mind of the mad liberationist… Raped to death by faggot niggers for the crime of being too conscience of one’s freedom.

  39. thor,
    you theorizing based on wisp of anecdotal knowledge; i have family that’s worked in law enforcement, mainly vice in Chicago (where better than there?) and in prisons in chicago and milwaukee.

    Guess what: there is no mass raping of prisoners in ‘full-service’ prisons; granted, there are some overlooked abuses in bullpen-like city jails and precinct holding pens, much moreso in chicago than milwaukee and other smaller cities.

    And here’s a fact that likely won’t sit well here: most to all of the racial segregation in medium and maximum security prisons are in California and to a slightly lesser extent Illinois; there is not that much racial enmity in Wisconsin penetentiaries.

    You’ve watched too much “Lockup” while out there ‘bouncing’ in ‘The Southland.’

    Maybe you’ve gone a bit crackers from living in So.Cal too long. I spent six or so weeks a year there for more than ten years and it almost drove me nuts. But to retrace: there is no routine, mass-ignoring of white-male rape by black prisoners.

  40. “Prosperous living conditions leads to weak people having to amuse themselves before they die.”

    Yeah, it’s a white middle-class, mass-production form of existential exhaustion and indifference—- that sorta consumer’s melancholy you get aimlessly walking through a Whole Foods store.

  41. Guess what: there is no mass raping of prisoners in ‘full-service’ prisons; granted, there are some overlooked abuses in bullpen-like city jails and precinct holding pens, much moreso in chicago than milwaukee and other smaller cities.

    I know this is anecdotal, but my college roommate worked as a guard at medium and low-security jails in the Durham, NC area recently. (a definite hellhole, it’s Crystal Mangum country)

    He said that in their jail he was certain there’s very little actual rape going on anymore, because the number of submissive gay prisoners willing to entertain in return for cigarettes or some small value item was so high. And charities gave out condoms in the prison to those known inmates who did this.

  42. “he was certain there’s very little actual rape going on anymore, because the number of submissive gay prisoners willing to entertain in return for cigarettes or some small value item was so high.”

    Yeah, in my comment I neglected to mention that part of the reason why there wasn’t rape was because of what you mention: rampant petty prostituting and just plain consensual homosexuality.

    In any case, I certainly wasn’t trying to imply that American prisons are chaste objects of sexual virtue.

  43. Yeah, it’s a white middle-class, mass-production form of existential exhaustion and indifference—- that sorta consumer’s melancholy you get aimlessly walking through a Whole Foods store.

    This is another dated trope consistent with your usual fin de siècle cultural references. This isn’t the go-go 90s of easy money that people apparently got bored with. White people are no longer enamored with the supposed NAM vibrancy you keep mentioning. If there was any of that sentiment left it has run it’s course with 8 years of a biracial president.

    I went to a Home Depot on the vibrant side of town the other day. Big mistake. The store of course was in disarray, resembling a third world bazaar, except it had a security system that you’d expect to find in a casino.. There were motion activated cameras installed on the shelves spaced at 10 feet intervals or so. After waiting in a long, slow moving check out line, an obese black woman at the register greeted me with a sullen expression and accepted my payment with gaudy acrylic fingernails. A guard at that exit served as a final layer of security, checking every single receipt on the way out. I will take the “consumer melancholy” of the big box store on the white side of town, thank you very much.

  44. Nikcrit…

    I say “routine” and you say “mass.” Raw numbers and a clear understanding of the zeitgeist TELLS “us” that white HETEROSEXUAL males are racially hate-raped by faggot niggers within the MRKN penal system TO THE SILENCE of both the media and the public at large. Whether it’s just one or hundreds, it changes this truth not one iota. And it is, in fact, this racial hate-rape that makes the MRKN prison complex equal to that of the DPRK’s. Yet, Dennis Rodman, a sexual degenerate himself, is not about to present “us” with this dastardly “equality.” Which then provokes the obvious question. What then, in the mind of Rodman, is the actual equality between the MRKN prison system and the DPRK’s?

  45. @MGE,
    Perhaps re-read the original comment: it’s short and clearly a reference to sub_elk’s remark about what happens to sad and PROSPEROUS people —– hence, me mentioning the relatively prosperous Whole Foods… pssst! I, too, shop there on occasion —– but I also go to Walmarket, and have my groceries checked out by acrylic fingernailed cash-register employees.

    I sometimes get the vibe from you that I used to get from this guy, Chad, at the old Guy White site; he too was commenting on that alt-right site during the period he was transistioning from hipster-Cathedralist into raycist-race-realist; likewise, as he made the switch, i became the foil and his tone changed in his attitude toward me from amicable to contentious……. In any case, I wasn’t implying service at Whole Foods is undesirable…. (personally, i hate food shopping, period).

  46. thor,
    I don’t know what to make of your remarks; within the scope of what i presented and challenged you on, your reply or follow-up is evasive. Or, if that’s too contentious a term, i’d say it’s irrelevant to what i said. I will say that i would find ‘degenerate’ and instance of interracial prison rape, particularly if the racial aspect of the transgression was highlighted, prime and indulged with gusto.

    Is that what you’re looking for in a response? I really don’t know what you’re getting at and it annoys that i confidently feel you could be more concise and clear if you sought to be.

  47. Nikcrit…

    You need MAKE NOTHING of my remarks. You accept the phenomenon I speak of or you don’t? Your attempt to transform “routine” into “mass” was an attempt at what exactly? It was an attempt to HIDE THE PHENOMENON in even the single instance..

    So in fact, you are attempting to assert WITHOUT ACTUALLY asserting that the racial hate-rape of white heterosexual males by faggot niggers DOES NOT EXIST within the MRKN prison system. That this phenomenon is “routine” in the sense that it undoubtedly exists, BUT without remark BY the institution itself or the public at large. But, it is this very phenomenon (real torture) that makes equal Dennis Rodman’s conceptions of MRKN’s versus DPRK’s penal oblivions.

  48. How frequent is rape, in prison and jail and all the lock-ups, in America, for men, and how does it break down by race.

    Are there any reliable sources on that question?

    The rape of a male by other males needs its own special name, and the obvious choice is ‘man rape’. It is telling, is it not, that there is no specific word or phrase for that frightful phenomenon.

    That is worth repeating. There is no specific word or phrase for man rape. Why not?

    A couple obvious points about it. First of all it is cruel and unusual punishment, in violation of Constitutional rights, for anyone to be subjected to that – and even if only as a threat. Our prisons in many other ways, including solitary confinement, violate those rights. Not that our Constitutional rights mean much, but it is interesting, how that particular Constitutional right is not given so much consideration or concern.

    No one seems to really give a shit. If it were only blacks and browns being abused, i might not either. Actually that is a joke. I don’t feel that way. We as a society – or rather “we as a society” – we ourselves are debased with our abuse of other people.

    That is some lofty and high-falutin sentiment but it is the truth.

    People protest the First and Second Amendment, but i would say that Cruel and Unusual, the right to be free of that, is up there with those, as the most important.

    The other point about man rape, is that it is about abuse as much or more so than about sexual gratification. And it is interesting to contrast that with male on female rape. However the circumstances in which those two types transpire are different so the comparison doesn’t work. But in the locked-up community, man rape is as much about abuse as sexual pleasure.

    On the other hand – that distinction between abuse and sexual gratification, is a misdirection in many ways. Sex as often as not is violent, and all that.

  49. I am not opposed to punishment, at all. My opinions on what will make for effective real world politics in the present circumstances, are AUTHORITARIAN.

    Fascist perhaps? – but in terms of specific political theory i do not know exactly what that means.

    In the current circumstances, this day and age – i think that authoritarian solutions to social transgressions that are determined to be criminal are the ticket to success.

    But avoiding cruel and unusual punishment is the right thing to do. Cruel and unusual punishment might or might not include physical forms – but tortures and maiming and things like that are not good.

    Doing that stuff to other people degrades the person and people who do it. I know that some consider that hippy-dippy and all, but come on. People who are willing to torture other people, and for that matter animals, … ?

    On the next thread, in the hypothetical play-out, Merkel is burned at the stake. It will never happen like, because it is too horrific and it will not be allowed. Or am i wrong?

    An interesting thought experiment, and i know that i am not alone in having considered this very earnestly, is – in what way would YOU choose to be put to death, had you to make the choice?

    [Firing squad. Minimal pain, dignified, plus I’d want to be alert when passing the life-death threshold and prepared for it in my thoughts. In some cases, the NKVD would lead a convict toward a cell where he expected to be executed but per SOP shot him in the back of the head before getting there. You can see a mercy element there, in terms of minimizing fear and pain. Koestler’s protagonist in “Darkness at Noon” was executed that way. -PA]

    Monte Python did a stupid skit on that, so let us say that being chased off a cliff by big-breasted English girls, is off the table.

    Did you know that, if your head is cleanly cut off, as with a guillotine, that “you” remain conscious for several seconds – so maybe that’s not so much fun either.

    There is netflix drama about Casanova that features at its conclusion a grisly portrayal of an execution by torture, where the poor sap’s limbs are affixed directly to chains with nails and molt, and then pulled off of him with draft horses, as a spectacle for the best society people, and the last shot is of him limbless and conscious for a second, groaning.

  50. Elk…

    What is it that has conditioned you to conceive MEN “raping” MEN, but not faggot niggers hate-raping white heterosexual “honkeys?”

    Do MEN really “rape” men? Or do faggots try to rape men in order to violate and destroy their very manhood? Do faggot niggers rape “white supremacists” for the very purpose of destroying their white racial manhood and desecrating their very soul?

    And then when one adds the spectacle of a vulgarly exaggerating nigress like Beyonche’ with her explicit message to the world that her “blackness” is still imprisoned and oppressed by the declining white mass of MRKA, what “we” have an all-out psychological assault of the very sanity of the white race.

  51. And let me be the first to say that there are no instances of “white” faggot “racists” hate-raping “black” heterosexual criminals within the MRKN prisons.

    So now Nikcrit… Do you deny the phenomenon to which I speak in an equally absolute manner?

  52. I forget some of the details but at one point even did some reporting on the fact that much of hte Motown canon of vintage gold was penned and performed by people whose names are all but unknown.

    Ah, ok. Thanks for that description, that was helpful.

    I’ve often sat and wondered how in the hell Motown phenom writers Rod Temperton or Holland-Dozier-Holland could crank out endless volumes of so many catchy, iconic tunes. This isn’t scientific, but I can’t imagine that even any of those songwriting juggernauts could create an average of even 1 “B-side” quality tune in every 20 to 25 song efforts started. It’s just how it works.

    And being musically challenged I don’t know the correct way or lingo to describe my thought here – but by the time that Quincy and Michael did Thriller you getting songs like Billy Jean that effectively incorporate enough hooks and underlying themes that you could’ve chopped it into 6 songs. All of those components had to be hand-picked… they’re simply too good to have been created together for that sole song.

    So I’m guessing that those powerhouse songwriting teams were more Rick Rubin than James Brown – skilled at incorporating many different types of content provided by underlings, and with a sharp eye for marketability/musical trends and what will just flat out play well (like Rick Rubin) – rather than out there just cranking out song after song obsessively while toiling away in some isolated back performance room to the point of exhaustion (like James Brown).

  53. I don’t know the correct way or lingo to describe my thought here – but by the time that Quincy and Michael did Thriller you getting songs like Billy Jean that effectively incorporate enough hooks and underlying themes that you could’ve chopped it into 6 songs. All of those components had to be hand-picked… they’re simply too good to have been created together for that sole song.

    Everything you point out and sort-of feel or believe about songwriting I agree with and could cite sources exemplifying as much; “Thriller” was both a intricately pre-arranged interesection of savvy marketing and demo-tested ‘hooks,’ combined with luck, timing and other intangibles that go into zeitgeist phenomenas.

    One of the beauties of pop music is how if you take, say, one guitar line, which may be unremarkable, yet combine it with say a different but certain bass line, in which either in and of itself is totally unremarkable. Yet combine these two simple element and —- bam! —- you just may wind up with the next irresistible catchy hit. It’s pop’s saving grace; the rare but consistent innocence and simplicity that makes up for all hackneyed hype, sleaze and disingenious outrage that makes up for the rest of that industry, and which unfortunately tends to prevail in said industry.


  54. I sometimes get the vibe from you that I used to get from this guy, Chad, at the old Guy White site;

    Yes nikcrit I did comment under the moniker of “Chad” as well as several other avatars on various blogs of interest. I had to retire that identity, however, because I made the fatal mistake of oversharing. I made many specific references that could too easily be traced to me. While I was in school I didn’t so much care, but as I advanced into my profession, it dawned on me that if I were ever doxxed it would be a disaster for my career… employers these days are conducting ever more advanced internet background checks, and one can only imagine what dirt could be dug up from archives 10 years from now.

    Anyway, to your original point, I thought you were referring specifically to middle class prosperity, (to quote: “white middle-class, mass-production form of existential exhaustion and indifference”). I think that was part of the late 90s zeitgeist exemplified by angsty grunge rock, movies like American Beauty and authors like Jonathan Franzen.

  55. I sometimes get the vibe from you that I used to get from this guy, Chad, at the old Guy White site;

    Trickin’ also outed “Dell” when he changed handles, lol.

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